4 ms·

Yeah I think you nailed it there actually. That's exactly their modus operandi. What's even worse is they have managed to abstract most of the support away in

Yeah I think you nailed it there actually. That's exactly their modus operandi. What's even worse is they have managed to abstract most of the support away in this cycle. You can't get enterprise support now because they gutted that entirely. You can't get them to do anything on github because they keep moving all the projects around and erasing them all or auto closing the tickets and no one on first line support knows anything now other than how to reset a Microsoft account password.

pjmlp 6y ago
If it works for Facebook and Google, with its legions of coffee shop developers, why not for others.
naikrovek 6y ago
> Yeah I think you nailed it there actually. That's exactly their modus operandi. They're following the "rules" from "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", remember. Specifically, the "Release early and often" bit, for the purposes of this conversation. Microsoft are considered "good open source citizens" because of the changes they've made to follow the written non-rules as well as the the unwritten rules. If you're going to fault Microsoft for following the rules, fault EVERYONE ELSE that does it as well. I want people to realize that they crap on Microsoft hard for things that they gladly accept from other developers or other companies. The double standards in the IT community are absolutely insane.
- delusional 6y ago
  I think Microsoft gets more shit exactly because people expect more of them. They are the giants. they aren't a scrappy startup that needs to release or go bankrupt. Microsoft are seen as the safe choice, so their stuff has to "just work". That's obviously a bad place for innovation within Microsoft, but i don't really think anyone cares about the future of Microsoft.
  - naikrovek 6y ago
    People having high expectations of Microsoft is not Microsoft's problem. Microsoft are human beings just like the rest of you, and just like any large company, organizational inefficiency handicaps skilled developers a great deal. Base your expectations on reality, and you'll have a much better time.
- uncledave 6y ago
  The thing is 99% of what I get elsewhere does actually work properly. Microsoft are just excessively bad at this.
  - dariusj18 6y ago
    Wow, you're quite lucky, because everything I use has bugs and edge cases.
    - uncledave 6y ago
      No luck. I look for things where people aren’t complaining and use those.
      - dariusj18 6y ago
        I would never use a project without complaints. Just means no one is using it.
- NineStarPoint 6y ago
  It’s worth noting that people do crap on google for doing this style of stuff constantly. It has basically nothing to do with the release early part, and everything to do with how things are deal with after that early feature light release. The entire point of “release early” is to be able to communicate with users about what direction the project should go. If you don’t keep iterating and working with user feedback (as at least google often doesn’t), then that’s why people complain.
tester756 6y ago
>on github because they keep moving all the projects around and erasing them who would've thought that managing hundreds of repos with shitton of issues, dependencies and people is difficult to get at 1st attempts

pjmlp 6y ago

If it works for Facebook and Google, with its legions of coffee shop developers, why not for others.

naikrovek 6y ago

> Yeah I think you nailed it there actually. That's exactly their modus operandi. They're following the "rules" from "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", remember. Specifically, the "Release early and often" bit, for the purposes of this conversation. Microsoft are considered "good open source citizens" because of the changes they've made to follow the written non-rules as well as the the unwritten rules. If you're going to fault Microsoft for following the rules, fault EVERYONE ELSE that does it as well. I want people to realize that they crap on Microsoft hard for things that they gladly accept from other developers or other companies. The double standards in the IT community are absolutely insane.

delusional 6y ago
I think Microsoft gets more shit exactly because people expect more of them. They are the giants. they aren't a scrappy startup that needs to release or go bankrupt. Microsoft are seen as the safe choice, so their stuff has to "just work". That's obviously a bad place for innovation within Microsoft, but i don't really think anyone cares about the future of Microsoft.
- naikrovek 6y ago
  People having high expectations of Microsoft is not Microsoft's problem. Microsoft are human beings just like the rest of you, and just like any large company, organizational inefficiency handicaps skilled developers a great deal. Base your expectations on reality, and you'll have a much better time.
uncledave 6y ago
The thing is 99% of what I get elsewhere does actually work properly. Microsoft are just excessively bad at this.
- dariusj18 6y ago
  Wow, you're quite lucky, because everything I use has bugs and edge cases.
  - uncledave 6y ago
    No luck. I look for things where people aren’t complaining and use those.
    - dariusj18 6y ago
      I would never use a project without complaints. Just means no one is using it.
NineStarPoint 6y ago
It’s worth noting that people do crap on google for doing this style of stuff constantly. It has basically nothing to do with the release early part, and everything to do with how things are deal with after that early feature light release. The entire point of “release early” is to be able to communicate with users about what direction the project should go. If you don’t keep iterating and working with user feedback (as at least google often doesn’t), then that’s why people complain.

tester756 6y ago

>on github because they keep moving all the projects around and erasing them who would've thought that managing hundreds of repos with shitton of issues, dependencies and people is difficult to get at 1st attempts