7 ms·

> It's not their brain washing, it's yours. The main difference I found between China- and Western-style brainwashing is that, in general, in the West people h

> It's not their brain washing, it's yours. The main difference I found between China- and Western-style brainwashing is that, in general, in the West people have much more negative attitude toward killing others, no matter what narrative is presented. Whenever USA tries to wage a war, there are many demonstrations against the war, and societies at large are anti-war and opposed to all forms of killing. The Chinese, on the other hand, seem to believe in consequentialism to a larger degree. They argue that sometimes killing is necessary to prevent more killing, for example. This is presented in a way very accessible for a Western person in the wuxia Hero (2002) where it is the main point of the movie. All in, I consider the Chinese more brainwashed because Western people have access to all kinds of propaganda - American right & left, Russian, Chinese - whereas the Chinese have much more limited sources because the government is putting an enormous amount of effort in controlling the sources of information, and given the size of the population, they're extremely successful.

Simulacra 6y ago
Don't forget Chinese "peaceful expansion" which is just another way of saying "We're going to come over and set up in your backyard, and if you don't like it, you're just causing aggression." The Chinese government is the most opaque and two-faced system in the world. At least in America we (almsot always) give you a trial before we kill you.
- dirtyid 6y ago
  Chinese/PRC "peaceful expansion" is resolving 12/14 (most) land border disputes with the most concessions, in shortest time period in human history. Chinese "peaceful expansion" is also being the 2nd last out of 6 claimants to conduct land reclamation or weaponize features in South China Sea disputes. Chinese "peaceful expansion" is _INHERITING_ all these disputes from ROC (Taiwan) i.e. they are not dispute of CCP's making, but hand me down disputes that must be resolved somehow... which China has done mostly diplomatically so far, with minimal blood shed. Without exaggeration, PRC ascent and border resolution is unprecedentedly peaceful relative to human history. In terms of modern dispute management, it's has been the most peaceful. Japan has disputes with 5/5 her maritime neighbours. And she's an island. > At least in America we (almsot always) give you a trial before we kill you. lol what is this, modern China has trials too. Maybe one day China's foreign policy will use paperwork to make enhanced interrogation not torture, and droning combatants not random civilians.
- dang 6y ago
  Please keep nationalistic flamewar off this site, regardless of how right your country is or you feel it is. Comments like this are a major step into the hell we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dirtyid 6y ago
>consequentialism Moral calculus is clearer when growing up without basic needs met. But more or less. >access to all kinds of propaganda Access to information does not make one more informed. Chinese who live through daily propaganda inherently understands nature of propaganda. Very few trust official news sources. Outside extremely partisan media platforms, western manufactured consent is more subtle and sinister. Most global south diaspora in the west will tell you how absolutely bullshit western reporting is in general, a free fifth estate is frequently seemingly indistinguishable from state propaganda from those who know it intimately. It's a matter of comprehension. There are more Chinese diaspora multilingual Chinese with English fluency able to share news from across the wall. You can't say the same about anglosphere and Chinese information literacy. The amount of absolutely ignorant western commentary on China is staggering, where as Chinese net actually has western perspectives that somewhat comport with reality. Chinese information control doesn't generate brainwashed people as much as create political disengagement. The more ideology Xi pushes the less believers there are are outside of the inevitable proportion of fierce nationalists / new generation of little pinks. But much of CHinese society skew old, have through Mao/Deng - they've experienced the spectrum of propaganda and understands when the levers are being adjusted. Modern western ecosystem generate extreme dogmatism without media literacy. Too many think access to information is the same as being informed. The debates people have on the effects of social media are similar lessons learned through the "lived" propaganda experience of just growing up in China. Recognition of the issue frequently doesn't generalize outside of the domestic realm, i.e. China issues. The fact that this story, a substack post by a non-subject matter expert using biased sources is generating this much engagement is more or less illustrative of the point.

Simulacra 6y ago

Don't forget Chinese "peaceful expansion" which is just another way of saying "We're going to come over and set up in your backyard, and if you don't like it, you're just causing aggression." The Chinese government is the most opaque and two-faced system in the world. At least in America we (almsot always) give you a trial before we kill you.

dirtyid 6y ago
Chinese/PRC "peaceful expansion" is resolving 12/14 (most) land border disputes with the most concessions, in shortest time period in human history. Chinese "peaceful expansion" is also being the 2nd last out of 6 claimants to conduct land reclamation or weaponize features in South China Sea disputes. Chinese "peaceful expansion" is _INHERITING_ all these disputes from ROC (Taiwan) i.e. they are not dispute of CCP's making, but hand me down disputes that must be resolved somehow... which China has done mostly diplomatically so far, with minimal blood shed. Without exaggeration, PRC ascent and border resolution is unprecedentedly peaceful relative to human history. In terms of modern dispute management, it's has been the most peaceful. Japan has disputes with 5/5 her maritime neighbours. And she's an island. > At least in America we (almsot always) give you a trial before we kill you. lol what is this, modern China has trials too. Maybe one day China's foreign policy will use paperwork to make enhanced interrogation not torture, and droning combatants not random civilians.
dang 6y ago
Please keep nationalistic flamewar off this site, regardless of how right your country is or you feel it is. Comments like this are a major step into the hell we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

dirtyid 6y ago

>consequentialism Moral calculus is clearer when growing up without basic needs met. But more or less. >access to all kinds of propaganda Access to information does not make one more informed. Chinese who live through daily propaganda inherently understands nature of propaganda. Very few trust official news sources. Outside extremely partisan media platforms, western manufactured consent is more subtle and sinister. Most global south diaspora in the west will tell you how absolutely bullshit western reporting is in general, a free fifth estate is frequently seemingly indistinguishable from state propaganda from those who know it intimately. It's a matter of comprehension. There are more Chinese diaspora multilingual Chinese with English fluency able to share news from across the wall. You can't say the same about anglosphere and Chinese information literacy. The amount of absolutely ignorant western commentary on China is staggering, where as Chinese net actually has western perspectives that somewhat comport with reality. Chinese information control doesn't generate brainwashed people as much as create political disengagement. The more ideology Xi pushes the less believers there are are outside of the inevitable proportion of fierce nationalists / new generation of little pinks. But much of CHinese society skew old, have through Mao/Deng - they've experienced the spectrum of propaganda and understands when the levers are being adjusted. Modern western ecosystem generate extreme dogmatism without media literacy. Too many think access to information is the same as being informed. The debates people have on the effects of social media are similar lessons learned through the "lived" propaganda experience of just growing up in China. Recognition of the issue frequently doesn't generalize outside of the domestic realm, i.e. China issues. The fact that this story, a substack post by a non-subject matter expert using biased sources is generating this much engagement is more or less illustrative of the point.