5 ms·

Pulled straight out of the Moral Mazes playbook, chapter on “dexterity with symbols.”

by mlthoughts2018 6y ago

wpietri 6y ago
Oh, interesting! I hadn't heard of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Mazes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Mazes At this point, its research is nearly 40 years out of date. Is it still worth reading? And are there more up-to-date versions?
- hitekker 6y ago
  I’m reading it right now And I highly recommend it. Many of its insights remain both relevant and thought-provoking.
- Smaug123 6y ago
  Zvi Mowshowitz talks a lot about it, starting at https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2019/05/30/quotes-from-moral-mazes/ https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2019/05/30/quotes-from-moral-ma... (main sequence page https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2020/05/23/mazes-sequence-summary/ https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2020/05/23/mazes-sequence-summa...). I found his sequence valuable.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  Moral Mazes is one of the rare books I return to and read multiple times. Far from being out of date, 40 years later it is more relevant and the research lines up more directly with corporate behavior than really any other research on this topic written since then. It really is a tremendous book.
- anthuswilliams 6y ago
  The latest printing includes an afterword by the author reflecting on the financial crisis, but most of the book is the original text. I recommend this book to everyone with a white-collar job. It's an incredible read. The research is a bit out of date, but the truths still hold. If anything, the age of the research is somewhat helpful. The phenomena these days are more subtle, and many of us work in companies with flatter hierarchies than the 25+ level pyramids the author studied. So the distance in time forces you to reflect on what has changed and whether the results are relevant to you. You will recognize so many of the situations as reminiscent of things you have experienced and haven't been able to put into words. It is 100% worth the read.
m463 6y ago
Ambiguity is a tool as well. "Advertising" for example could mean the benign "show me a picture of some product" or it could mean "identify who I am, how I behave, where I work, how much I make, who I know, and maintain and share a dossier on all of it"
- civilized 6y ago
  "...so as to show a slightly more suitable product picture"
  - m463 6y ago
    suitable... for the highest paying advertiser, not you. (advertiser -> person who wants to sell their product)

Pulled straight out of the Moral Mazes playbook, chapter on “dexterity with symbols.”

Oh, interesting! I hadn't heard of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Mazes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Mazes At this point, its research is nearly 40 years out of date. Is it still worth reading? And are there more up-to-date versions?

hitekker 6y ago
I’m reading it right now And I highly recommend it. Many of its insights remain both relevant and thought-provoking.
Smaug123 6y ago
Zvi Mowshowitz talks a lot about it, starting at https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2019/05/30/quotes-from-moral-mazes/ https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2019/05/30/quotes-from-moral-ma... (main sequence page https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2020/05/23/mazes-sequence-summary/ https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2020/05/23/mazes-sequence-summa...). I found his sequence valuable.
mlthoughts2018 6y ago
Moral Mazes is one of the rare books I return to and read multiple times. Far from being out of date, 40 years later it is more relevant and the research lines up more directly with corporate behavior than really any other research on this topic written since then. It really is a tremendous book.
anthuswilliams 6y ago
The latest printing includes an afterword by the author reflecting on the financial crisis, but most of the book is the original text. I recommend this book to everyone with a white-collar job. It's an incredible read. The research is a bit out of date, but the truths still hold. If anything, the age of the research is somewhat helpful. The phenomena these days are more subtle, and many of us work in companies with flatter hierarchies than the 25+ level pyramids the author studied. So the distance in time forces you to reflect on what has changed and whether the results are relevant to you. You will recognize so many of the situations as reminiscent of things you have experienced and haven't been able to put into words. It is 100% worth the read.

m463 6y ago

Ambiguity is a tool as well. "Advertising" for example could mean the benign "show me a picture of some product" or it could mean "identify who I am, how I behave, where I work, how much I make, who I know, and maintain and share a dossier on all of it"

civilized 6y ago
"...so as to show a slightly more suitable product picture"
- m463 6y ago
  suitable... for the highest paying advertiser, not you. (advertiser -> person who wants to sell their product)