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I was in film&tv for a long time. You know, Fincher himself put it really well. I'll paraphrase and add a bit to it along with something Zemeckis said. Any audi

I was in film&tv for a long time. You know, Fincher himself put it really well. I'll paraphrase and add a bit to it along with something Zemeckis said. Any audiovisual work of sufficient scale, let alone film, is a collaborative process. You can't do it alone, you can't finance it alone, yet your name ends up tied to it. Whether you write it yourself or not, as a director it's your interpretation, and every single shooting day (and pre and post) starts with your vision and over the course of that day there are compromises after compromises. You not only have to do your craft, but also give guidance (even when you don't have it) and power through compromises. How well your vision will be delivered is directly proportional to how many compromises you're ready to take. Every single person on that shoot day has their input and 'what they think', from an actor to a grip that pushes dolly and everyone has something to say.. yet, at the end of the day they're already on the next production and you're stuck with footage that will bear your name. It's one of the most challenging things I've been involved with. Put those words into context around Alien 3. Young guy, big production and budget - of course he'll listen to everyone since, well.. insecurity! One thing Tarantino said about Fincher though is there's a difference between directors like him and Fincher. I agree but it's not negative how he portrayed it. It's one thing to write your own film and then direct it and the other for someone else to write it and you interpret it. Take what you will from it, I don't take it as negative but different.

deleted 6y ago
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chokeartist 6y ago
> Put those words into context around Alien 3. Young guy, big production and budget - of course he'll listen to everyone since, well.. insecurity! Alien 3 was my first thought when I saw David Fincher in this headline. As flawed as that movie was, I still really enjoyed it. I can tell he legitimately tried to make it a legitimate "art" piece in his mind. Your commentary about him being young+big money... is absolutely correct. Alien 3 could have had 3x the box market pop if there was a more collaborative process in my view. Oh well, you live and you learn. Personal bias: I have enjoyed pretty much every one of David Fincher's movies.
morley 6y ago
I wish there were more literature about film directors as managers, as opposed to visionaries. A lot of film workers talk about their favorite directors as "knowing exactly what they want" or "having a clear vision," but it's harder to know how they get what they want, or how they express their vision, or how they navigate situations where their vision is wrong or conflicts with someone else's. Or simply how they do that at 4am at the end of a 14-hour work day. I like the stories about how Tarantino will make everyone say "because we love making movies" as a rallying cry. I wish there were more stories like that.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Just like every other job, some directors are better than others at certain aspects. Some are great with getting talent to perform, some are great with camera work, and some are visionaries. Just like any CEO/founder of a start-up, to have a successful film, you have to staff up with people that are strong where you are weak. A director that is great with talent but less in the camera dept hires a great DP. A strong Assitant Director can keep the day to day management going while the visionary director focuses on the 30,000' view.
- wodenokoto 6y ago
  The guy who did Shazam and a few lessor known hollywood scary movies has a youtube channel where he talks about this stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNS4U_aE28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNS4U_aE28
goto11 6y ago
I think his issue with Alien 3 was he was forced by the studio to compromise his vision, not that he listened to much or was insecure. Unless you have "final cut" in the contract, the studio can and probably will force you to make changes against your will.
- golemotron 6y ago
  This is all reminiscent of David Lynch and Dune. It was his first big box movie and someone else's material.
justin66 6y ago
> Put those words into context around Alien 3. Young guy, big production and budget - of course he'll listen to everyone since, well.. insecurity! Where are you getting this? The story about Alien 3's production has been told from a few different points of view and I've never heard it said that Fincher took too much advice.
- Keyframe 6y ago
  Fincher himself, he spoke about it, I think on The Game, commentary track. You can also hear what he thinks about actors there and their input. Something along the lines of they're a color, but I'm the painter.
  - justin66 6y ago
    >Fincher himself, he spoke about it, I think on The Game, commentary track. Thanks, that's super interesting. On the bonus material for the Alien box set, which Fincher didn't participate in, a number of people who commented (studio people, producers on set, etc., IIRC) said they felt they were marginalized during the filming and that their advice was not heeded. All things considered, the documentary was very supportive of Fincher's point of view, that he was a victim of an overly controlling studio that didn't give him the funding he needed. So I guess there's a difference in point of view there regarding precisely when he stopped heeding others' advice. :)
  - dlkinney 6y ago
    He also feels the same way about the technical crew; the lighting crew, at least. Don't remember where I read it, but he said he lights his stuff primarily with flat overhead lighting these days because he doesn't want the DP/lighting to "waste time" getting lights just right for a shot. While I immensely enjoy his films, it seems that he has great distain for the fact that filmmaking is a community effort, and simultaneously doesn't have it in himself to fight for his choices, so he just eliminates choice where he can. Watching his progression over the years, I feel like the penultimate David Fincher film would be sans-actors and camera movement, followed by a film of raw script text pages with his red marker notes scribbled on them.

deleted 6y ago

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chokeartist 6y ago

> Put those words into context around Alien 3. Young guy, big production and budget - of course he'll listen to everyone since, well.. insecurity! Alien 3 was my first thought when I saw David Fincher in this headline. As flawed as that movie was, I still really enjoyed it. I can tell he legitimately tried to make it a legitimate "art" piece in his mind. Your commentary about him being young+big money... is absolutely correct. Alien 3 could have had 3x the box market pop if there was a more collaborative process in my view. Oh well, you live and you learn. Personal bias: I have enjoyed pretty much every one of David Fincher's movies.

morley 6y ago

I wish there were more literature about film directors as managers, as opposed to visionaries. A lot of film workers talk about their favorite directors as "knowing exactly what they want" or "having a clear vision," but it's harder to know how they get what they want, or how they express their vision, or how they navigate situations where their vision is wrong or conflicts with someone else's. Or simply how they do that at 4am at the end of a 14-hour work day. I like the stories about how Tarantino will make everyone say "because we love making movies" as a rallying cry. I wish there were more stories like that.

dylan604 6y ago
Just like every other job, some directors are better than others at certain aspects. Some are great with getting talent to perform, some are great with camera work, and some are visionaries. Just like any CEO/founder of a start-up, to have a successful film, you have to staff up with people that are strong where you are weak. A director that is great with talent but less in the camera dept hires a great DP. A strong Assitant Director can keep the day to day management going while the visionary director focuses on the 30,000' view.
wodenokoto 6y ago
The guy who did Shazam and a few lessor known hollywood scary movies has a youtube channel where he talks about this stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNS4U_aE28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzNS4U_aE28

goto11 6y ago

I think his issue with Alien 3 was he was forced by the studio to compromise his vision, not that he listened to much or was insecure. Unless you have "final cut" in the contract, the studio can and probably will force you to make changes against your will.

golemotron 6y ago
This is all reminiscent of David Lynch and Dune. It was his first big box movie and someone else's material.

justin66 6y ago

> Put those words into context around Alien 3. Young guy, big production and budget - of course he'll listen to everyone since, well.. insecurity! Where are you getting this? The story about Alien 3's production has been told from a few different points of view and I've never heard it said that Fincher took too much advice.

Keyframe 6y ago
Fincher himself, he spoke about it, I think on The Game, commentary track. You can also hear what he thinks about actors there and their input. Something along the lines of they're a color, but I'm the painter.
- justin66 6y ago
  >Fincher himself, he spoke about it, I think on The Game, commentary track. Thanks, that's super interesting. On the bonus material for the Alien box set, which Fincher didn't participate in, a number of people who commented (studio people, producers on set, etc., IIRC) said they felt they were marginalized during the filming and that their advice was not heeded. All things considered, the documentary was very supportive of Fincher's point of view, that he was a victim of an overly controlling studio that didn't give him the funding he needed. So I guess there's a difference in point of view there regarding precisely when he stopped heeding others' advice. :)
- dlkinney 6y ago
  He also feels the same way about the technical crew; the lighting crew, at least. Don't remember where I read it, but he said he lights his stuff primarily with flat overhead lighting these days because he doesn't want the DP/lighting to "waste time" getting lights just right for a shot. While I immensely enjoy his films, it seems that he has great distain for the fact that filmmaking is a community effort, and simultaneously doesn't have it in himself to fight for his choices, so he just eliminates choice where he can. Watching his progression over the years, I feel like the penultimate David Fincher film would be sans-actors and camera movement, followed by a film of raw script text pages with his red marker notes scribbled on them.