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> I'm guessing the worlds biggest human rights org would love to know Matt from substack's source? I would guess ramblings from some dark Falun Gong blog, as c

> I'm guessing the worlds biggest human rights org would love to know Matt from substack's source? I would guess ramblings from some dark Falun Gong blog, as clearly he has no issues quoting them elsewhere on the piece, which on my eyes for as gruesome as the topic might be takes a huge amount of credibility away of him and the piece

dirtyid 6y ago
These are the kind of numbers and narrative Tibetan/FLG NGOs from the west throws out. Read: outdated propaganda from a bunch of exiles from 20-30 years ago stuck in "immigrant time bubble" where their impressions of the country is locked in a outdated reality. Which more or less summarizes this entire article and most ridiculous amateur CCP bad analysis regurgitated by western "enthusiasts". It's like whenever people insinuate Tianamen 2.0 will repeat for xyz events like China is trapped in some pre reform time bubble in terms of culture and capabilities. Somehow a modern China with 14T economy is going to have deal with problems the same way as post war China with 200B economy. I've never seen so many seemingly intelligent people go full smooth brain on this subject matter including in this thread. It's particularly hilarious to see people claim their very smart PhD Chinese colleagues being brainwashed, when theses colleagues have experience in both east and west - they're not the ones with singular perspective and the information deficit. It's not their brain washing, it's yours. Chinese diaspora reciprocate stories of how brainwashed their western coworkers are.. Queue reactionary 50c accusations when 50c doesn't operate in English inside or outside GFC. China is ~50X wealthier since 89, a wealthier China with riot gear and information control doesn't need to Tianamen dissidents haphazardly. A wealthier China with lethal injection doesn't need to shoot people in back of head in open fields and bill family for bullet, nor execute as many when it's economical to lock them away. Which is largely what happens outside of most egregious crimes / drug smuggling charges. Not to mention much of China executes XYZ for bullshit reasons media reporting turns out to be China sentences person to "death sentence with reprieve" - a symbolic sentence that's functionally life imprisonment. Things aren't the best, but they are generally trending in the right direction.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  > It's not their brain washing, it's yours. The main difference I found between China- and Western-style brainwashing is that, in general, in the West people have much more negative attitude toward killing others, no matter what narrative is presented. Whenever USA tries to wage a war, there are many demonstrations against the war, and societies at large are anti-war and opposed to all forms of killing. The Chinese, on the other hand, seem to believe in consequentialism to a larger degree. They argue that sometimes killing is necessary to prevent more killing, for example. This is presented in a way very accessible for a Western person in the wuxia Hero (2002) where it is the main point of the movie. All in, I consider the Chinese more brainwashed because Western people have access to all kinds of propaganda - American right & left, Russian, Chinese - whereas the Chinese have much more limited sources because the government is putting an enormous amount of effort in controlling the sources of information, and given the size of the population, they're extremely successful.
  - Simulacra 6y ago
    Don't forget Chinese "peaceful expansion" which is just another way of saying "We're going to come over and set up in your backyard, and if you don't like it, you're just causing aggression." The Chinese government is the most opaque and two-faced system in the world. At least in America we (almsot always) give you a trial before we kill you.
    - dirtyid 6y ago
      Chinese/PRC "peaceful expansion" is resolving 12/14 (most) land border disputes with the most concessions, in shortest time period in human history. Chinese "peaceful expansion" is also being the 2nd last out of 6 claimants to conduct land reclamation or weaponize features in South China Sea disputes. Chinese "peaceful expansion" is _INHERITING_ all these disputes from ROC (Taiwan) i.e. they are not dispute of CCP's making, but hand me down disputes that must be resolved somehow... which China has done mostly diplomatically so far, with minimal blood shed. Without exaggeration, PRC ascent and border resolution is unprecedentedly peaceful relative to human history. In terms of modern dispute management, it's has been the most peaceful. Japan has disputes with 5/5 her maritime neighbours. And she's an island. > At least in America we (almsot always) give you a trial before we kill you. lol what is this, modern China has trials too. Maybe one day China's foreign policy will use paperwork to make enhanced interrogation not torture, and droning combatants not random civilians.

dirtyid 6y ago

These are the kind of numbers and narrative Tibetan/FLG NGOs from the west throws out. Read: outdated propaganda from a bunch of exiles from 20-30 years ago stuck in "immigrant time bubble" where their impressions of the country is locked in a outdated reality. Which more or less summarizes this entire article and most ridiculous amateur CCP bad analysis regurgitated by western "enthusiasts". It's like whenever people insinuate Tianamen 2.0 will repeat for xyz events like China is trapped in some pre reform time bubble in terms of culture and capabilities. Somehow a modern China with 14T economy is going to have deal with problems the same way as post war China with 200B economy. I've never seen so many seemingly intelligent people go full smooth brain on this subject matter including in this thread. It's particularly hilarious to see people claim their very smart PhD Chinese colleagues being brainwashed, when theses colleagues have experience in both east and west - they're not the ones with singular perspective and the information deficit. It's not their brain washing, it's yours. Chinese diaspora reciprocate stories of how brainwashed their western coworkers are.. Queue reactionary 50c accusations when 50c doesn't operate in English inside or outside GFC. China is ~50X wealthier since 89, a wealthier China with riot gear and information control doesn't need to Tianamen dissidents haphazardly. A wealthier China with lethal injection doesn't need to shoot people in back of head in open fields and bill family for bullet, nor execute as many when it's economical to lock them away. Which is largely what happens outside of most egregious crimes / drug smuggling charges. Not to mention much of China executes XYZ for bullshit reasons media reporting turns out to be China sentences person to "death sentence with reprieve" - a symbolic sentence that's functionally life imprisonment. Things aren't the best, but they are generally trending in the right direction.

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
> It's not their brain washing, it's yours. The main difference I found between China- and Western-style brainwashing is that, in general, in the West people have much more negative attitude toward killing others, no matter what narrative is presented. Whenever USA tries to wage a war, there are many demonstrations against the war, and societies at large are anti-war and opposed to all forms of killing. The Chinese, on the other hand, seem to believe in consequentialism to a larger degree. They argue that sometimes killing is necessary to prevent more killing, for example. This is presented in a way very accessible for a Western person in the wuxia Hero (2002) where it is the main point of the movie. All in, I consider the Chinese more brainwashed because Western people have access to all kinds of propaganda - American right & left, Russian, Chinese - whereas the Chinese have much more limited sources because the government is putting an enormous amount of effort in controlling the sources of information, and given the size of the population, they're extremely successful.
- Simulacra 6y ago
  Don't forget Chinese "peaceful expansion" which is just another way of saying "We're going to come over and set up in your backyard, and if you don't like it, you're just causing aggression." The Chinese government is the most opaque and two-faced system in the world. At least in America we (almsot always) give you a trial before we kill you.
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    Chinese/PRC "peaceful expansion" is resolving 12/14 (most) land border disputes with the most concessions, in shortest time period in human history. Chinese "peaceful expansion" is also being the 2nd last out of 6 claimants to conduct land reclamation or weaponize features in South China Sea disputes. Chinese "peaceful expansion" is _INHERITING_ all these disputes from ROC (Taiwan) i.e. they are not dispute of CCP's making, but hand me down disputes that must be resolved somehow... which China has done mostly diplomatically so far, with minimal blood shed. Without exaggeration, PRC ascent and border resolution is unprecedentedly peaceful relative to human history. In terms of modern dispute management, it's has been the most peaceful. Japan has disputes with 5/5 her maritime neighbours. And she's an island. > At least in America we (almsot always) give you a trial before we kill you. lol what is this, modern China has trials too. Maybe one day China's foreign policy will use paperwork to make enhanced interrogation not torture, and droning combatants not random civilians.