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> You are directly supporting an unethical business and generating at least as much revenue for them as the salary you take home. Whoever benefits from this va

> You are directly supporting an unethical business and generating at least as much revenue for them as the salary you take home. Whoever benefits from this value/excess value can behave unethically with it: is it evident that Bigcorp will behave (on average/net) more unethically than Smallco? If you work for Bigcorp and act to help them behave more ethically, are you making more of a difference than you would elsewhere? I say this lovingly, as someone who has actively chosen not to work for Bigcorps because I find them unethical. It's not always immediately obvious that the alternatives are more ethical. A smaller company might do more harm and face less scrutiny.

ddevault 6y ago
>is it evident that Bigcorp will behave (on average/net) more unethically than Smallco? Smallco is certainly capable of unethical behavior, and I would encourage you to critically examine your both prospects and the companies you end up working for. But, for most values of Bigcorp that anyone could name, there's clear evidence of ongoing unethical behavior. >If you work for Bigcorp and act to help them behave more ethically, are you making more of a difference than you would elsewhere? Definitely, and I would support anyone who is doing so. But this isn't easy, and the typical software engineer plugging away is almost certainly not doing this. It takes a lot of hubris to presume that you, an engineer worth .00075% of your employer's revenue, can exert the necessary influence to cause substantive changes in unethical behavior. Perhaps if megacorp tech workers collectivized, it would be more realistic.
- throwaway2245 6y ago
  > But, for most values of Bigcorp that anyone could name, there's clear evidence of ongoing unethical behavior. This slightly missed my point: Bigcorps engage in a lot of behaviour, some of which is evidenced to be unethical. Smallco engages in less behaviour, which is not evidenced. You have no way to judge if it's more unethical.
  - ddevault 6y ago
    You're comparing a known with an unknown. We can judge that the known is unethical. We cannot judge either way on the unknown. It follows that the only possibly ethical choice is at Smallcorp. And I'm sure we could make a much better argument for it if we substituted Bigcorp and Smallcorp with actual options you were deciding between as a prospective employer.
- triceratops 6y ago
  > for most values of Bigcorp that anyone could name, there's clear evidence of ongoing unethical behavior. Yeah, 'cuz they're big. They have a ton of people working at them and some fraction will do unethical stuff. I'd be surprised if the actual rate of unethical behavior was higher than average (barring fundamentally corrupt orgs like Enron or Theranos).

ddevault 6y ago

>is it evident that Bigcorp will behave (on average/net) more unethically than Smallco? Smallco is certainly capable of unethical behavior, and I would encourage you to critically examine your both prospects and the companies you end up working for. But, for most values of Bigcorp that anyone could name, there's clear evidence of ongoing unethical behavior. >If you work for Bigcorp and act to help them behave more ethically, are you making more of a difference than you would elsewhere? Definitely, and I would support anyone who is doing so. But this isn't easy, and the typical software engineer plugging away is almost certainly not doing this. It takes a lot of hubris to presume that you, an engineer worth .00075% of your employer's revenue, can exert the necessary influence to cause substantive changes in unethical behavior. Perhaps if megacorp tech workers collectivized, it would be more realistic.

throwaway2245 6y ago
> But, for most values of Bigcorp that anyone could name, there's clear evidence of ongoing unethical behavior. This slightly missed my point: Bigcorps engage in a lot of behaviour, some of which is evidenced to be unethical. Smallco engages in less behaviour, which is not evidenced. You have no way to judge if it's more unethical.
- ddevault 6y ago
  You're comparing a known with an unknown. We can judge that the known is unethical. We cannot judge either way on the unknown. It follows that the only possibly ethical choice is at Smallcorp. And I'm sure we could make a much better argument for it if we substituted Bigcorp and Smallcorp with actual options you were deciding between as a prospective employer.
triceratops 6y ago
> for most values of Bigcorp that anyone could name, there's clear evidence of ongoing unethical behavior. Yeah, 'cuz they're big. They have a ton of people working at them and some fraction will do unethical stuff. I'd be surprised if the actual rate of unethical behavior was higher than average (barring fundamentally corrupt orgs like Enron or Theranos).