4 ms·

Just the idea of a school is worse than a prison: - it’s mandatory - closed confinement - not allowed to do what you want in that closed area - you’re being tol

Just the idea of a school is worse than a prison: - it’s mandatory - closed confinement - not allowed to do what you want in that closed area - you’re being told what to do for at least 8-14 years - you’re being told when to pee - during the years there is no choice in what you want to learn And at the end of your school/studies you’re asked to be creative and responsible

throwawaygh 6y ago
The following is specific to the USA: 1. School is not mandatory; education is mandatory. Ask any home schooler. A rare few private schools offer quite different experiences than the typical public school (e.g., the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools). This applies also to "closed confinement" and "control". Of course, opting out requires enlightened parenting and lots of resources. 2. You are constantly told what to do, but outside of some broad physical requirements there's really no forcing you to do what you're told. Choose some good coding/math/philosophy puzzles during the evening and work on them instead of paying attention in class. No one can control what you do in your head. You can similarly opt of almost all graded work; especially if you stick to AP courses then the grades you are assigned by the instructor you don't much matter anyways. 3. You are not given a choice in what your lectures cover, but you can choose what to learn and eschew any required "creativity"/"responsibility". In other words, you can always choose not to play the game and still turn out just fine. Having a friend group that reinforces this option is helpful; I was part of one and today we're all very highly paid and well-educated professionals because -- not in spite of -- our complete disengagement from the high school game (including the academic component). To any highschoolers reading this: if you find yourself intellectually dead and generally creeped out by high school culture, consider ignoring your coursework to study for a GED and then simply attending a nearby high school instead of college. However, at least finish your freshman year somewhat engaged. Many aspects of American culture are easier to understand if you know how the vast majority of its citizens are socialized. E.g., many modern political rallies are intentionally choreographed to match the structure and emotional melody of a high school pep rally. Attending a few yourself as an open-minded and non-judgemental exercise in field anthropology will be helpful.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  > School is not mandatory; education is mandatory. Ask any home schooler. Home schooling is not a suitable alternative IMO. Social contact with your peers is important too; having to forfeit that just to not be in a prison-like system seems like a bad deal. > Choose some good coding/math/philosophy puzzles during the evening and work on them instead of paying attention in class So in addition to wasting 8 hours per day in class you need to do extra work in the evening? I think in both cases we need to fix the system instead of putting the burden onto students to put up with it or work around it with the solutions that you describe.
  - resonious 6y ago
    The idea that homeschooling is devoid of social contact is a bit naive I think. Of course different parents have different styles - it is entirely possible to close off your child from social contact. But most homeschoolers I know have their kids doing all kinds of things throughout the day. Sports, group lessons in topics where the parent's knowledge is lacking, and overall more free time to visit friends' houses and do things that are actually interesting. The real trade off of homeschooling is with respect to the effort required by the parents.
  - throwawaygh 6y ago
    > Home schooling is not a suitable alternative IMO. Social contact with your peers is important too. having to forfeit that just to not be in a prison-like system seems like a bad deal. This is why above-average students should just go to college after a year or two of high school. 16 year olds and 18 year olds are in fact peers (or can be without drawing arbitrary lines). > I think in both cases we need to fix the system instead of putting the burden onto students to put up with it or work around it with the solutions that you describe. The problem is that your suggestion is completely non-actionable for students. It's also not particularly actionable for a parent trying to help their school-aged child today. Even if a parent does manage to change a huge entrenched institution -- highly unlikely! -- it'll be at least a decade after their own kid is out of the system. So. Yes, I agree, you too should run for school board. But don't count on systemic change if you're trying to help someone currently in the system.
TaupeRanger 6y ago
While we're being hyperbolic and unhelpful, guess what? If you leave kids to their own devices they will play video games and watch Til Tok all day. Good luck with that.
- Siira 6y ago
  That might be a better life for them. It’s not like schools actually teach useful skills.
  - TaupeRanger 6y ago
    Yikes. Someone had a bad experience I guess.

throwawaygh 6y ago

The following is specific to the USA: 1. School is not mandatory; education is mandatory. Ask any home schooler. A rare few private schools offer quite different experiences than the typical public school (e.g., the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools). This applies also to "closed confinement" and "control". Of course, opting out requires enlightened parenting and lots of resources. 2. You are constantly told what to do, but outside of some broad physical requirements there's really no forcing you to do what you're told. Choose some good coding/math/philosophy puzzles during the evening and work on them instead of paying attention in class. No one can control what you do in your head. You can similarly opt of almost all graded work; especially if you stick to AP courses then the grades you are assigned by the instructor you don't much matter anyways. 3. You are not given a choice in what your lectures cover, but you can choose what to learn and eschew any required "creativity"/"responsibility". In other words, you can always choose not to play the game and still turn out just fine. Having a friend group that reinforces this option is helpful; I was part of one and today we're all very highly paid and well-educated professionals because -- not in spite of -- our complete disengagement from the high school game (including the academic component). To any highschoolers reading this: if you find yourself intellectually dead and generally creeped out by high school culture, consider ignoring your coursework to study for a GED and then simply attending a nearby high school instead of college. However, at least finish your freshman year somewhat engaged. Many aspects of American culture are easier to understand if you know how the vast majority of its citizens are socialized. E.g., many modern political rallies are intentionally choreographed to match the structure and emotional melody of a high school pep rally. Attending a few yourself as an open-minded and non-judgemental exercise in field anthropology will be helpful.

Nextgrid 6y ago
> School is not mandatory; education is mandatory. Ask any home schooler. Home schooling is not a suitable alternative IMO. Social contact with your peers is important too; having to forfeit that just to not be in a prison-like system seems like a bad deal. > Choose some good coding/math/philosophy puzzles during the evening and work on them instead of paying attention in class So in addition to wasting 8 hours per day in class you need to do extra work in the evening? I think in both cases we need to fix the system instead of putting the burden onto students to put up with it or work around it with the solutions that you describe.
- resonious 6y ago
  The idea that homeschooling is devoid of social contact is a bit naive I think. Of course different parents have different styles - it is entirely possible to close off your child from social contact. But most homeschoolers I know have their kids doing all kinds of things throughout the day. Sports, group lessons in topics where the parent's knowledge is lacking, and overall more free time to visit friends' houses and do things that are actually interesting. The real trade off of homeschooling is with respect to the effort required by the parents.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  > Home schooling is not a suitable alternative IMO. Social contact with your peers is important too. having to forfeit that just to not be in a prison-like system seems like a bad deal. This is why above-average students should just go to college after a year or two of high school. 16 year olds and 18 year olds are in fact peers (or can be without drawing arbitrary lines). > I think in both cases we need to fix the system instead of putting the burden onto students to put up with it or work around it with the solutions that you describe. The problem is that your suggestion is completely non-actionable for students. It's also not particularly actionable for a parent trying to help their school-aged child today. Even if a parent does manage to change a huge entrenched institution -- highly unlikely! -- it'll be at least a decade after their own kid is out of the system. So. Yes, I agree, you too should run for school board. But don't count on systemic change if you're trying to help someone currently in the system.

TaupeRanger 6y ago

While we're being hyperbolic and unhelpful, guess what? If you leave kids to their own devices they will play video games and watch Til Tok all day. Good luck with that.

Siira 6y ago
That might be a better life for them. It’s not like schools actually teach useful skills.
- TaupeRanger 6y ago
  Yikes. Someone had a bad experience I guess.