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This feels like a case where the market will dictate what works and what doesn't. It sounds shitty/shady to you (or at least that's how you're framing it here

by sbarre 6y ago

This feels like a case where the market will dictate what works and what doesn't. It sounds shitty/shady to you (or at least that's how you're framing it here - apologies if I misunderstood) but if people are still buying those homes, then they must think it's an acceptable contract to enter into.

smnrchrds 6y ago
The fact that people grudgingly sign a contract does not mean all the terms of the contract are fair. People sign away their right to sue or join a class action lawsuit as a prerequisite to buying goods or services from companies all the time, but I still believe it is unfair. People grudgingly sign work contracts with strong non-compete, non-disclosure, and IP assignment clauses, but I think those clauses are unfair.
Brian_K_White 6y ago
It sounds like exactly the opposite, where the market created or allowed a situation where the majority of people get something they don't want at all. It's ridiculous to even try to say that a home owner will not weigh 50 different factors, and have to tolerate 10 things they do NOT want because they come packaged with 40 other things they either want or absolutely need. Why does anyone even try to pretend like they don't recognize this unless they are themselves one of the few people actually benefitting from one of these consumer-hostile deals?
- sbarre 6y ago
  > It's ridiculous to even try to say that a home owner will not weigh 50 different factors, and have to tolerate 10 things they do NOT want because they come packaged with 40 other things they either want or absolutely need. You make it sound like there's a lack of options for homeowners when you say this. Where I live (Toronto) that is not the case. Of course there is no perfect deal, there will always be things that aren't ideal but I don't know anyone (and I'm old enough to know lots of home owners) who has ever bought a house that had some kind of feature or clause they absolutely hated or didn't want. If it's that bad, you don't buy that house, and you find one that better suits your needs. Otherwise, you're understanding and accepting the terms, and you're willing to live with them. I hate the argument that "people" are too stupid/naive/stuck to understand or avoid the terms of an agreement they're entering into.. except for the narrator who sees themselves as the smart person who is yelling about it from the mountaintop.

by sbarre 6y ago

smnrchrds 6y ago

The fact that people grudgingly sign a contract does not mean all the terms of the contract are fair. People sign away their right to sue or join a class action lawsuit as a prerequisite to buying goods or services from companies all the time, but I still believe it is unfair. People grudgingly sign work contracts with strong non-compete, non-disclosure, and IP assignment clauses, but I think those clauses are unfair.

Brian_K_White 6y ago

It sounds like exactly the opposite, where the market created or allowed a situation where the majority of people get something they don't want at all. It's ridiculous to even try to say that a home owner will not weigh 50 different factors, and have to tolerate 10 things they do NOT want because they come packaged with 40 other things they either want or absolutely need. Why does anyone even try to pretend like they don't recognize this unless they are themselves one of the few people actually benefitting from one of these consumer-hostile deals?

sbarre 6y ago
> It's ridiculous to even try to say that a home owner will not weigh 50 different factors, and have to tolerate 10 things they do NOT want because they come packaged with 40 other things they either want or absolutely need. You make it sound like there's a lack of options for homeowners when you say this. Where I live (Toronto) that is not the case. Of course there is no perfect deal, there will always be things that aren't ideal but I don't know anyone (and I'm old enough to know lots of home owners) who has ever bought a house that had some kind of feature or clause they absolutely hated or didn't want. If it's that bad, you don't buy that house, and you find one that better suits your needs. Otherwise, you're understanding and accepting the terms, and you're willing to live with them. I hate the argument that "people" are too stupid/naive/stuck to understand or avoid the terms of an agreement they're entering into.. except for the narrator who sees themselves as the smart person who is yelling about it from the mountaintop.