4 ms·

As far as I understand, ASML is not the creation of government funding, but instead a spinout of Philip and ASMI, two successful Dutch electronics companies. AS

As far as I understand, ASML is not the creation of government funding, but instead a spinout of Philip and ASMI, two successful Dutch electronics companies. ASML was successful in a competitive market, dominated by Japanese companies pretty quickly. In other words, very different model from what the EU is currently trying.

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
You are correct. The discussion about ASML is relevant in that state of the art chips cannot be produced without one of their TwinScan lithography tools. ASML is the only company that can build tools with 7nm and below capability. In the context of the EU developing the ability to fabricate state-of-the-art chips, ASML would sell them the TwinScan tools they needed, which are just one species of about 40 that are used for chip fabrication.
- mafribe 6y ago
  ASML would also sell those tools without prodding by the EU. ASML would dearly love to sell them to SMIC and other Chinese foundry too, if the US would let them. Lithography machines are a functioning market that is interfered with for geo-strategic reasons.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  If ASML is the only company that can do what they do and anyone else would need decades to catch up, how are they not the most profitable company in the world? All of the world's most profitable companies depend dearly on chips. If they are literally the only company that can provide this critical part of the chip production, why aren't they taking a larger portion of the profit?
  - roenxi 6y ago
    At some point their customers will stop worrying about using 7nm and go back to double-digit nanometres. CPU tech from the 2000s is adequate for most workloads, let alone stuff from 2010. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff where 7nm is necessary to get certain outcomes, but it is a small market compared to what could be reasonably done with older process technologies.
throwaway2048 6y ago
However TSMC is a direct creation of the Taiwanese government. In 1985 Morris Chang was recruited by the Taiwanese government to help develop the emerging semiconductor industry. In 1986 Morris joined the Hsinchu based non profit research institute ITRI as Chairman and President and launched what would be TSMC’s first semiconductor wafer fabrication plant on the ITRI campus. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Ltd. was officially formed in 1987 as a joint venture between the Taiwan government (21%), Dutch multinational electronics giant Philips (28%), and other private investors. https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-manufacturers/tsmc/1539-a-brief-history-of-tsmc/ https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-manufacturers/tsmc/1539-a...
kazen44 6y ago
ASML is not directly funded by a govermental grant yes, but phillips had massive govermental support (mainly from the dutch goverment and the EEC aswell).

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago

You are correct. The discussion about ASML is relevant in that state of the art chips cannot be produced without one of their TwinScan lithography tools. ASML is the only company that can build tools with 7nm and below capability. In the context of the EU developing the ability to fabricate state-of-the-art chips, ASML would sell them the TwinScan tools they needed, which are just one species of about 40 that are used for chip fabrication.

mafribe 6y ago
ASML would also sell those tools without prodding by the EU. ASML would dearly love to sell them to SMIC and other Chinese foundry too, if the US would let them. Lithography machines are a functioning market that is interfered with for geo-strategic reasons.
jjeaff 6y ago
If ASML is the only company that can do what they do and anyone else would need decades to catch up, how are they not the most profitable company in the world? All of the world's most profitable companies depend dearly on chips. If they are literally the only company that can provide this critical part of the chip production, why aren't they taking a larger portion of the profit?
- roenxi 6y ago
  At some point their customers will stop worrying about using 7nm and go back to double-digit nanometres. CPU tech from the 2000s is adequate for most workloads, let alone stuff from 2010. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff where 7nm is necessary to get certain outcomes, but it is a small market compared to what could be reasonably done with older process technologies.

throwaway2048 6y ago

However TSMC is a direct creation of the Taiwanese government. In 1985 Morris Chang was recruited by the Taiwanese government to help develop the emerging semiconductor industry. In 1986 Morris joined the Hsinchu based non profit research institute ITRI as Chairman and President and launched what would be TSMC’s first semiconductor wafer fabrication plant on the ITRI campus. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Ltd. was officially formed in 1987 as a joint venture between the Taiwan government (21%), Dutch multinational electronics giant Philips (28%), and other private investors. https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-manufacturers/tsmc/1539-a-brief-history-of-tsmc/ https://semiwiki.com/semiconductor-manufacturers/tsmc/1539-a...

kazen44 6y ago

ASML is not directly funded by a govermental grant yes, but phillips had massive govermental support (mainly from the dutch goverment and the EEC aswell).