10 ms·

In my mind maybe this is something like an HOA. Sure, your friends might love your house parties, but your neighbors have to deal with the consequences

by warent 6y ago

smnrchrds 6y ago
Aren't HOAs widely hated?
- incongruity 6y ago
  As are dentist visits and prostate exams - but even those things ultimately add value. HOA’s arguably do so as well even if they’re often hated.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    But do most people consider them as such, i.e. painful but necessary/beneficial? My understanding was that they are widely regarded as parasitic organizations full of busybodies who are there to advance their personal agenda and to feel a sense of power over people at the expense of all the reasonable people who just want to live their lives; they are considered the polar opposite of live and let live. I personally have never dealt with an HOA, so my understanding of their popularity is shaped solely by what I have read online. I must say your comment is the only one I have ever seen that has put them in a positive light.
    - hombre_fatal 6y ago
      HOA does have what feel like arbitrary busybody restrictions, but they are also the authority that makes people remove the broken washing machine from their front yard and they are the only recourse in my region (when I lived briefly in a suburban house) for someone who refuses to do anything about their dog that barks 24/7 or flings trash into your neighboring yard. HOA fixed it for me on both occasions. The police certainly don’t care. So people aren’t going to like the HOA. But they also offer essential recourse and order.
    - pixelatedindex 6y ago
      Most people I know who have been pro-HOA are the ones who have a say in it and are on the board, or have strong opinions on how their neighbors should outfit their own house. The ones that hates the HOA are the ones that have paid a ton of money (I’m in the Bay Area) and can’t do as they please. Who wants to pay close to a million and have others chime in and start giving you directions on what to do to your own property. I rent, but the principe of the HOA is a big enough leech in my mind that I’d hold out for a single home, whenever that is (if at all).
    - vel0city 6y ago
      I grew up in a large neighborhood with an HOA. There were a few times where my family butted heads with the HOA (replacing fences with a non-standard style, a play swing/slide thing being a bit tall) but for the most part the HOA was nice. They managed a park and pool for the neighborhood's exclusive use. They decorated the entrance signs to the neighborhood for the holidays. They put on some holiday events like an easter egg hunt/picnic, a fourth of july bike parade, Christmas light judging/awards. People didn't have tons of clutter in their front yards, the streets weren't super crowded with cars.
- ufmace 6y ago
  No. Certain internet communities have a culture of dunking on them, but they do not represent any kind of real majority. The housing market continues to show a preference towards communities with HOAs.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    > The housing market continues to show a preference towards communities with HOAs. Is it the housing market as homeowners who favours HOAs, or is it the builders who favour them? Are HOAs opted in by homeowners in existing communities because of their benefits, or do builders create them force them upon new communities because it benefits them somehow? I am asking because while I do not have any knowledge of HOAs, I have been following the saga of rental water heaters/furnaces/ACs in Ontario for a while. Long story short, construction companies sign a long-term contract with an appliance company instead of buying and installing necessary appliances like furnaces for new houses. They get a nice kickback for this. If you want to buy a new house, odds are you will be bound by a long-term contact. If you want to terminate it early, you end up paying 30k for an appliance that is worth 10k new and installed. If you keep your contact, you will pay the same over many years. It is a deal that is very much to the benefits of the builder and very much against the interest of the homeowners. But they have been exploding in popularity. There are relatively more and more homes with rented water heaters and fewer and fewer homes with owned water heaters every year. It would still be wrong to conclude that "water heater rental is beneficial. See, the market has spoken."
    - sbarre 6y ago
      This feels like a case where the market will dictate what works and what doesn't. It sounds shitty/shady to you (or at least that's how you're framing it here - apologies if I misunderstood) but if people are still buying those homes, then they must think it's an acceptable contract to enter into.
      - smnrchrds 6y ago
        The fact that people grudgingly sign a contract does not mean all the terms of the contract are fair. People sign away their right to sue or join a class action lawsuit as a prerequisite to buying goods or services from companies all the time, but I still believe it is unfair. People grudgingly sign work contracts with strong non-compete, non-disclosure, and IP assignment clauses, but I think those clauses are unfair.
- jkmcf 6y ago
  The HOA stereotype definitely is, but all HOAs are not the same. My HOA is generally hands off but you do need to ask permission for structural or cosmetic changes -- the neighborhood doesn't want to look like an amusement park. But, no one is going around measuring the height of your grass or other overly strict things I've read about. However, I did just get a nasty gram to take down my political "Giant Meteor for 2020 - just end it already" yard sign.
  - pixelatedindex 6y ago
    > the neighborhood doesn't want to look like an amusement park. I do think this is where a lot of the HOA problems come from - if someone wants to put something up on their front yard or lawn, then neighbors can intervene and say you can’t do that there. Since you bought the property and it’s yours, why do others get to have a say in it? I know I don’t give two hoots about what the neighbor does to their own home.
    - sbarre 6y ago
      Buying the property came with the HOA strings. If you didn't want those strings, then go buy a property somewhere that doesn't have an HOA. Same with this case, I sympathize with the author and I personally think this is a stupid thing for Apple to do, but the author (hopefully) understood the bargain they were entering into when they chose to enter the walled garden.
      - pixelatedindex 6y ago
        > If you didn't want those strings, then go buy a property somewhere that doesn't have an HOA. The HOA is becoming more and more like your American ISP. When more and more properties demand an HOA, there’s only so many choices for you. Though I don’t like the answer of “go do it somewhere else” because the real problem is not analyzed and/or solved, I do agree on the Apple front.
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      > Since you bought the property and it’s yours, why do others get to have a say in it? Because you signed on a line that said you agree to being governed by the HOA when you bought the house. It’s that simple. The sad reality though is that if you don’t like it, you have to find somewhere else (which doesn’t work well if your whole city is under the HOA)
- gnopgnip 6y ago
  The congressional approval rating has been between 10 and 30% for the last 8 years, and over this same time the re-election rates of incumbent congressional reps is 89% or higher. People are largely happy with their own congress members, and vote to reelect them and their own HOA, and they will choose to purchase homes with an HOA, and not disband them.
  - berryjerry 6y ago
    No, everyone thinks they could do a better job but no one actually wants those jobs.
drzaiusapelord 6y ago
How could this analogy work? There's no consequences to having a app with the word 'fuck' in it. Meanwhile throwing big parties obviously does to neighbors. I don't feel a lot of meatspace analogies work to things that are purely digital and can be filtered or ignored, while a houseparty with 100+ people and its noise and drunk drivers obviously cant be.
- owenmarshall 6y ago
  > There’s no consequences to having a app with the word ‘fuck’ in it I suspect that Apple has done studies and has a projected “likely lost sales” figure attributable to having an app store overrun with “mature content” apps. (Edited: tried to clean up a clunky sentence :))
pixelatedindex 6y ago
Except in this case there are no “neighbors” to speak of. Every app is kind of like an island in an archipelago and don’t have a means of communicating to each other. It’s more like the government of the archipelago decided that they don’t like the name of the island as people interested in such an island are promoting narcotics.

In my mind maybe this is something like an HOA. Sure, your friends might love your house parties, but your neighbors have to deal with the consequences

by warent 6y ago

In my mind maybe this is something like an HOA. Sure, your friends might love your house parties, but your neighbors have to deal with the consequences

smnrchrds 6y ago

Aren't HOAs widely hated?

incongruity 6y ago
As are dentist visits and prostate exams - but even those things ultimately add value. HOA’s arguably do so as well even if they’re often hated.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  But do most people consider them as such, i.e. painful but necessary/beneficial? My understanding was that they are widely regarded as parasitic organizations full of busybodies who are there to advance their personal agenda and to feel a sense of power over people at the expense of all the reasonable people who just want to live their lives; they are considered the polar opposite of live and let live. I personally have never dealt with an HOA, so my understanding of their popularity is shaped solely by what I have read online. I must say your comment is the only one I have ever seen that has put them in a positive light.
  - hombre_fatal 6y ago
    HOA does have what feel like arbitrary busybody restrictions, but they are also the authority that makes people remove the broken washing machine from their front yard and they are the only recourse in my region (when I lived briefly in a suburban house) for someone who refuses to do anything about their dog that barks 24/7 or flings trash into your neighboring yard. HOA fixed it for me on both occasions. The police certainly don’t care. So people aren’t going to like the HOA. But they also offer essential recourse and order.
  - pixelatedindex 6y ago
    Most people I know who have been pro-HOA are the ones who have a say in it and are on the board, or have strong opinions on how their neighbors should outfit their own house. The ones that hates the HOA are the ones that have paid a ton of money (I’m in the Bay Area) and can’t do as they please. Who wants to pay close to a million and have others chime in and start giving you directions on what to do to your own property. I rent, but the principe of the HOA is a big enough leech in my mind that I’d hold out for a single home, whenever that is (if at all).
  - vel0city 6y ago
    I grew up in a large neighborhood with an HOA. There were a few times where my family butted heads with the HOA (replacing fences with a non-standard style, a play swing/slide thing being a bit tall) but for the most part the HOA was nice. They managed a park and pool for the neighborhood's exclusive use. They decorated the entrance signs to the neighborhood for the holidays. They put on some holiday events like an easter egg hunt/picnic, a fourth of july bike parade, Christmas light judging/awards. People didn't have tons of clutter in their front yards, the streets weren't super crowded with cars.
ufmace 6y ago
No. Certain internet communities have a culture of dunking on them, but they do not represent any kind of real majority. The housing market continues to show a preference towards communities with HOAs.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  > The housing market continues to show a preference towards communities with HOAs. Is it the housing market as homeowners who favours HOAs, or is it the builders who favour them? Are HOAs opted in by homeowners in existing communities because of their benefits, or do builders create them force them upon new communities because it benefits them somehow? I am asking because while I do not have any knowledge of HOAs, I have been following the saga of rental water heaters/furnaces/ACs in Ontario for a while. Long story short, construction companies sign a long-term contract with an appliance company instead of buying and installing necessary appliances like furnaces for new houses. They get a nice kickback for this. If you want to buy a new house, odds are you will be bound by a long-term contact. If you want to terminate it early, you end up paying 30k for an appliance that is worth 10k new and installed. If you keep your contact, you will pay the same over many years. It is a deal that is very much to the benefits of the builder and very much against the interest of the homeowners. But they have been exploding in popularity. There are relatively more and more homes with rented water heaters and fewer and fewer homes with owned water heaters every year. It would still be wrong to conclude that "water heater rental is beneficial. See, the market has spoken."
  - sbarre 6y ago
    This feels like a case where the market will dictate what works and what doesn't. It sounds shitty/shady to you (or at least that's how you're framing it here - apologies if I misunderstood) but if people are still buying those homes, then they must think it's an acceptable contract to enter into.
    - smnrchrds 6y ago
      The fact that people grudgingly sign a contract does not mean all the terms of the contract are fair. People sign away their right to sue or join a class action lawsuit as a prerequisite to buying goods or services from companies all the time, but I still believe it is unfair. People grudgingly sign work contracts with strong non-compete, non-disclosure, and IP assignment clauses, but I think those clauses are unfair.
jkmcf 6y ago
The HOA stereotype definitely is, but all HOAs are not the same. My HOA is generally hands off but you do need to ask permission for structural or cosmetic changes -- the neighborhood doesn't want to look like an amusement park. But, no one is going around measuring the height of your grass or other overly strict things I've read about. However, I did just get a nasty gram to take down my political "Giant Meteor for 2020 - just end it already" yard sign.
- pixelatedindex 6y ago
  > the neighborhood doesn't want to look like an amusement park. I do think this is where a lot of the HOA problems come from - if someone wants to put something up on their front yard or lawn, then neighbors can intervene and say you can’t do that there. Since you bought the property and it’s yours, why do others get to have a say in it? I know I don’t give two hoots about what the neighbor does to their own home.
  - sbarre 6y ago
    Buying the property came with the HOA strings. If you didn't want those strings, then go buy a property somewhere that doesn't have an HOA. Same with this case, I sympathize with the author and I personally think this is a stupid thing for Apple to do, but the author (hopefully) understood the bargain they were entering into when they chose to enter the walled garden.
    - pixelatedindex 6y ago
      > If you didn't want those strings, then go buy a property somewhere that doesn't have an HOA. The HOA is becoming more and more like your American ISP. When more and more properties demand an HOA, there’s only so many choices for you. Though I don’t like the answer of “go do it somewhere else” because the real problem is not analyzed and/or solved, I do agree on the Apple front.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    > Since you bought the property and it’s yours, why do others get to have a say in it? Because you signed on a line that said you agree to being governed by the HOA when you bought the house. It’s that simple. The sad reality though is that if you don’t like it, you have to find somewhere else (which doesn’t work well if your whole city is under the HOA)
gnopgnip 6y ago
The congressional approval rating has been between 10 and 30% for the last 8 years, and over this same time the re-election rates of incumbent congressional reps is 89% or higher. People are largely happy with their own congress members, and vote to reelect them and their own HOA, and they will choose to purchase homes with an HOA, and not disband them.
- berryjerry 6y ago
  No, everyone thinks they could do a better job but no one actually wants those jobs.

drzaiusapelord 6y ago

How could this analogy work? There's no consequences to having a app with the word 'fuck' in it. Meanwhile throwing big parties obviously does to neighbors. I don't feel a lot of meatspace analogies work to things that are purely digital and can be filtered or ignored, while a houseparty with 100+ people and its noise and drunk drivers obviously cant be.

owenmarshall 6y ago
> There’s no consequences to having a app with the word ‘fuck’ in it I suspect that Apple has done studies and has a projected “likely lost sales” figure attributable to having an app store overrun with “mature content” apps. (Edited: tried to clean up a clunky sentence :))

pixelatedindex 6y ago

Except in this case there are no “neighbors” to speak of. Every app is kind of like an island in an archipelago and don’t have a means of communicating to each other. It’s more like the government of the archipelago decided that they don’t like the name of the island as people interested in such an island are promoting narcotics.