5 ms·

What’s the point being made here? That if you take a picture of a building from a specific angle it’s difficult to tell the function of the building?

ve55 6y ago
I would guess that the intention is for the readers to think about other similarities between schools and prisons, and the the outsides of the buildings are just a convenient way to inspire more comparisons.
nerdponx 6y ago
I just found it fun. Like the "boobs or armpit" type of games on Newgrounds.
dijit 6y ago
Going to be honest though. School (at least mine) functioned very similarly to a prison, in fact, most prisons had better conditions than my secondary school. There is a simple fact that schools can be glorified daycare so that workers can offload the burden of childcare. For this purpose, a prison makes sense. Despite not being the most humane considering the kids didn’t do any crime worthy of rehabilitation.
- issamehh 6y ago
  I can't even look at school as not being a prison. It's one of the only places I've had the displeasure to be denied basic rights such as going to use a toilet.
  - finnh 6y ago
    Also one of the only places with a nontrivial amount of people who would lie about needing to go to the bathroom, many times per day, just to be disruptive and/or to get out of class. aka "this is why we can't have nice things", juvenile edition :)
    - gpm 6y ago
      I think you need to ask why a non trivial amount of people would lie about needing to go to the bathroom. This is not a common behavior of teenagers at home, in a museum, at camp, on a canoe trip, or just about anywhere else I can think of...
      - neolog 6y ago
        Pretty common at parties and other social gatherings.
      - alisonkisk 6y ago
        Kids lie to avoid esting vegetables. Are vegetables prison?
        gpm 6y ago
        Kids lie to avoid eating vegetables... because humans are evolutionary adapted to really like sugar, and they know that higher sugar foods exist. Sugar = good is no longer an appropriate heuristic given the change in nutritional availability - in fact it is now harmful - so we force kids to behave differently. It's not clear that school is similar. Is it not the case that people learn better when they are adequately stimulated and engaged? Even if not, how far should we go in making kids miserable to force them to learn more? Do we need to make them miserable or is there an alternative? This is what I mean by asking why, and it's not clear to me what all the answers are (it's a very complex question).
    - Der_Einzige 6y ago
      Teachers can deal with it. It's worth it to have to deal with the second order effects of folks lying to be disruptive or getting out of class so that we don't deny basic bathroom rights to those who need it most. I have literally ZERO sympathy for any teacher who has shitty (haha) bathroom policies.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      > just to be disruptive and/or to get out of class Stopping making a big deal out of it will remove the disruption factor. If you can just get up and leave and nobody pays attention the act will quickly lose its effect. > to get out of class This suggests there's a bigger problem there if people are so desperate to get out as to fake a bathroom break, but anyway, why not let them? What's the harm? If these people are bored/disgruntled/etc then you already lost the game and no amount of force or coercion will change their mind.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  I remember hearing that my school was actually modelled after a prison. Don't know if it was actually true, but it sure looked like it, since it had this large, multi-storey hall with classrooms all around it. A bit like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Kilmainham_Gaol_Main_Hall_2016-06-03.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Kilmainh...
- brewdad 6y ago
  My kid's suburban high school sits amidst a large grouping of light industrial warehouses. We joke that the district built it's own warehouse...for kids.
- dash2 6y ago
  You're confident about this comparison. Have you been to prison?
  - dijit 6y ago
    I think it is more common than you think, especially among people who grew up in low socioeconomic situations.
devnull255 6y ago
As referenced in the comment with the Foucault quote, the modern school and prison are both structures designed in a way that makes it easier for their authorities (wardens, guards, principals and teachers) to contain and control their captive populations (prisoners and students). In his book "Discipline and Punish", Foucault argues that in the establishment of the modern prison, the mission of imprisonment shifted from punishing those who were imprisoned to reforming and disciplining them to become better citizens. The same organizing principles of command and control developed for "modern" prisons were applied to the "modern" school as well. I thought the game eerily demonstrated how similar prisons and schools look to one another. Both kinds of buildings are designed to limit access to the building and also egress.
- kiba 6y ago
  I doubt that is how schools functions and that they were trying to make obedient citizens that follows regular hours or whatever nonsense people conjure up. The reason schools operate that way is simple: sheer inertia combined with just being impervious to reform.
  - bbddg 6y ago
    Really interesting analysis: "schools operate that way because that's the way they are."
  - albatruss 6y ago
    What makes the the nonsense you're conjuring up, with no argument or research, more valid than that of the renowned philosophers you are trivially dismissing? Doubt is good, but strong, unjustified claims are not.
    - kiba 6y ago
      Because the education system wasn't in fact designed to produce factory workers for a regimented system.[1](http://hackeducation.com/2015/04/25/factory-model http://hackeducation.com/2015/04/25/factory-model) This is the problem with attributing purposes for which our ancestors never intended.
eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
Here's a really good article to explain the consequences of schools being the holding pens which they are: http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html
- whhone 6y ago
  I also recall this article from his book "Hackers & Painters".

ve55 6y ago

I would guess that the intention is for the readers to think about other similarities between schools and prisons, and the the outsides of the buildings are just a convenient way to inspire more comparisons.

nerdponx 6y ago

I just found it fun. Like the "boobs or armpit" type of games on Newgrounds.

dijit 6y ago

Going to be honest though. School (at least mine) functioned very similarly to a prison, in fact, most prisons had better conditions than my secondary school. There is a simple fact that schools can be glorified daycare so that workers can offload the burden of childcare. For this purpose, a prison makes sense. Despite not being the most humane considering the kids didn’t do any crime worthy of rehabilitation.

issamehh 6y ago
I can't even look at school as not being a prison. It's one of the only places I've had the displeasure to be denied basic rights such as going to use a toilet.
- finnh 6y ago
  Also one of the only places with a nontrivial amount of people who would lie about needing to go to the bathroom, many times per day, just to be disruptive and/or to get out of class. aka "this is why we can't have nice things", juvenile edition :)
  - gpm 6y ago
    I think you need to ask why a non trivial amount of people would lie about needing to go to the bathroom. This is not a common behavior of teenagers at home, in a museum, at camp, on a canoe trip, or just about anywhere else I can think of...
    - neolog 6y ago
      Pretty common at parties and other social gatherings.
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      Kids lie to avoid esting vegetables. Are vegetables prison?
      - gpm 6y ago
        Kids lie to avoid eating vegetables... because humans are evolutionary adapted to really like sugar, and they know that higher sugar foods exist. Sugar = good is no longer an appropriate heuristic given the change in nutritional availability - in fact it is now harmful - so we force kids to behave differently. It's not clear that school is similar. Is it not the case that people learn better when they are adequately stimulated and engaged? Even if not, how far should we go in making kids miserable to force them to learn more? Do we need to make them miserable or is there an alternative? This is what I mean by asking why, and it's not clear to me what all the answers are (it's a very complex question).
  - Der_Einzige 6y ago
    Teachers can deal with it. It's worth it to have to deal with the second order effects of folks lying to be disruptive or getting out of class so that we don't deny basic bathroom rights to those who need it most. I have literally ZERO sympathy for any teacher who has shitty (haha) bathroom policies.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    > just to be disruptive and/or to get out of class Stopping making a big deal out of it will remove the disruption factor. If you can just get up and leave and nobody pays attention the act will quickly lose its effect. > to get out of class This suggests there's a bigger problem there if people are so desperate to get out as to fake a bathroom break, but anyway, why not let them? What's the harm? If these people are bored/disgruntled/etc then you already lost the game and no amount of force or coercion will change their mind.
Hamuko 6y ago
I remember hearing that my school was actually modelled after a prison. Don't know if it was actually true, but it sure looked like it, since it had this large, multi-storey hall with classrooms all around it. A bit like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Kilmainham_Gaol_Main_Hall_2016-06-03.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Kilmainh...
brewdad 6y ago
My kid's suburban high school sits amidst a large grouping of light industrial warehouses. We joke that the district built it's own warehouse...for kids.
dash2 6y ago
You're confident about this comparison. Have you been to prison?
- dijit 6y ago
  I think it is more common than you think, especially among people who grew up in low socioeconomic situations.

devnull255 6y ago

As referenced in the comment with the Foucault quote, the modern school and prison are both structures designed in a way that makes it easier for their authorities (wardens, guards, principals and teachers) to contain and control their captive populations (prisoners and students). In his book "Discipline and Punish", Foucault argues that in the establishment of the modern prison, the mission of imprisonment shifted from punishing those who were imprisoned to reforming and disciplining them to become better citizens. The same organizing principles of command and control developed for "modern" prisons were applied to the "modern" school as well. I thought the game eerily demonstrated how similar prisons and schools look to one another. Both kinds of buildings are designed to limit access to the building and also egress.

kiba 6y ago
I doubt that is how schools functions and that they were trying to make obedient citizens that follows regular hours or whatever nonsense people conjure up. The reason schools operate that way is simple: sheer inertia combined with just being impervious to reform.
- bbddg 6y ago
  Really interesting analysis: "schools operate that way because that's the way they are."
- albatruss 6y ago
  What makes the the nonsense you're conjuring up, with no argument or research, more valid than that of the renowned philosophers you are trivially dismissing? Doubt is good, but strong, unjustified claims are not.
  - kiba 6y ago
    Because the education system wasn't in fact designed to produce factory workers for a regimented system.[1](http://hackeducation.com/2015/04/25/factory-model http://hackeducation.com/2015/04/25/factory-model) This is the problem with attributing purposes for which our ancestors never intended.

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago

Here's a really good article to explain the consequences of schools being the holding pens which they are: http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html

whhone 6y ago
I also recall this article from his book "Hackers & Painters".