5 ms·

The pay cut discussion is annoying, no one who works in SV makes most of their pay by salary. If you’ve already locked in a Bay Area RSU grant you’re set to wo

The pay cut discussion is annoying, no one who works in SV makes most of their pay by salary. If you’ve already locked in a Bay Area RSU grant you’re set to work remote in a no income tax state. That alone could make up the salary difference.

coffeefirst 6y ago
It's also bizarre to watch Silicon Valley engineers complain about taking a 10% salary cut with their 35% cost of living cut. The right way to do this, for what it's worth, is to have standard base salaries and regional CoL increases for the most expensive cities.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  Yep, it's a bit precious, annoying too for us people who work for a FAANG but not at the Bay Area HQ. Our salaries have already been adjusted for local conditions for years. If you transfer from, say, Google Mountain View out to Pittsburgh or Waterloo your compensation will be adjusted accordingly, including your RSUs. None of this is new or novel so it's weird to see people complain. In all likelihood these companies will continue to compensate generously relative to everyone else. It's their MO. It's pretty hard to complain as I watch working class people around me struggle to get by, or get sick working in "essential" industries. Friend of mine got COVID (likely) from work, carpenter at a petroleum plant. Mid 50s, but very healthy and fit, no health issues. Had to be rushed to hospital to get oxygen, was on his ass for weeks. Luckily a unionized job, but others not nearly as lucky. Personally I can't wait to be able to go back into the office, at least a couple days a week. Nice that my chronic back pain has improved a lot since I haven't been driving my commute daily though.
  - eeZah7Ux 6y ago
    > It's pretty hard to complain as I watch working class people around me struggle to get by, or get sick working in "essential" industries. Now think about the places in the world where a developer gets paid 40k/y or 20, or 10.
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      Why not simply improve their skill and join better companies?
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    > If you transfer from, say, Google Mountain View out to Pittsburgh or Waterloo your compensation will be adjusted accordingly, including your RSUs. None of this is new or novel so it's weird to see people complain. In the case of international locations (Waterloo) there's often a skill gap as well. Not everyone there would qualify to relocate to Mountain View.
    - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
      ? There's no skill gap at all. Any employee at my office in Waterloo could transfer to Mountain View without any problem at all. Google would be very happy to make it happen. The only limitation would be the US immigration system. If anything the skill gap would be the other way around. The hiring bar is high at Google Waterloo.
      - 908B64B197 6y ago
        That's not what I've seen. Transferring to Mountain View requires to re-interview. Satellite offices like Waterloo being harder to be hired into while simultaneously paying a fraction of Mountain View sounds... a little far fetched. There's probably more filtering happening at the satellite branch however. Just with the North Acquisition, they hired exactly nobody and shipped the product back to Mountain View right away.
        cmrdporcupine 6y ago
        There's nothing far-fetched about compensation being less in Waterloo vs Silicon Valley due to factors unrelated to "skill". Google indexes compensation by cost of living. Not sure what the disconnect here is, since that's the origin of the topic chain. Also not sure where you get off making claims about people's skill levels, or who you are and what your knowledge of Google is, but you're making some very questionable claims. There's a reason Google has an office in Waterloo and it's growing aggressively, and it isn't to get lower quality or cheaper talent. Saying it's a "fraction of MTV" is also exaggerating. Google pays generously in Canada. Maybe you should apply and see how loose the standards are. There's no re-interview to move between offices or countries. The only "interview" would be to be accepted onto a team at the destination and then request the transfer. I know people who have gone both ways. For what it's worth, these days more people seem to be coming back to Canada than the other way around. Ability to move around is actually one of the perks of Google employment. As for acquisitions, I came into Google via acquisition 9 years ago. Of a company divided between US and Toronto. I am not privy to the details on North, and I haven't met those people yet because of not being in the office due to COVID etc, but they report up into the same general product area as me. They definitely brought in many of those people as employees in Waterloo. If it's like the acquisition I was part of, not everyone gets an offer, some get put on contract, etc.
- eeZah7Ux 6y ago
  > It's also bizarre to watch Silicon Valley engineers complain about taking a 10% salary cut with their 35% cost of living cut. Greed is irrational. If you consider the time saved by not having to go to work and all the benefits of being able to work from any location, the difference is even bigger.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    The greed is on the part of the company. If they are getting the same amount of work, then they should pay everyone the same regardless of where they live.
- driverdan 6y ago
  The right way to do this is pay people based on their value to the company and not care where they live.
- jbay808 6y ago
  > complain about taking a 10% salary cut with their 35% cost of living cut Where do you draw the line? Do you think a 35% salary cut would be reasonable to complain about? At some point, in moving from Seattle to Winnipeg, if your salary gets adjusted from being able to afford a small apartment in downtown Seattle to being able to afford a small apartment in downtown Winnipeg... At some point that becomes a bad deal, right?
  - coffeefirst 6y ago
    Of course, there’s a way to do it that would be outrageous if you assume the worst. And perhaps the anxiety around this is really because they didn’t publish hard numbers. But in a lot of cases, the average FAANG engineer who takes this route will be leaving their small apartment for somewhere they can buy a house.
    - jbay808 6y ago
      Yes - but that house is probably affordable because of the savings they've accumulated in Seattle/SF.
neuland 6y ago
I pulled the trigger on remote years ago and took a about a 5% salary cut. The state I moved to has an income tax. However after adjusting for lower income tax, cost of living [0], and my RSU's being unaffected, I ended up slightly ahead. After a couple years, the company did start adjusting RSU refreshes to reduce grants to people outside of top cities. Even with that though, I'm still breaking even or ahead. Just another voice saying that you need to do the math and think about your company's policies. You can only account for changing policies so much. I got in at a time when the deal was very good. Today, my salary reduction would be much higher (2-3x the reduction) and all other comp has caught up to being location adjusted. But, the deal at my company can still be good as long as you check the math. Another gotcha to watch out for is benefits. Make sure the company health care plan(s) have doctors in-network where you are moving. Since health care networks are very regional, this is not always the case. I had to switch plans. Also, you won't be able to use a lot of the other tech company perks that people don't price in a lot: free food/snacks/drinks, gym, spa, health center, daycare, etc. Though some company's will give you money to get a gym membership, but probably not the other things. [0] The cost of living savings mostly came from housing. But nearly everything local (grocery's, restaurants, gas, etc) is 30% to 50% cheaper where I'm at, which adds up quick too.
ignoramous 6y ago
Move to HQ, toil for the promotion there and those nice grants that come along with it. Return back to the home country/city. This was a common strategy at a FAANG I was at. People wiped off generational debts with this strategy because strong dollar and bull market.
lambda_obrien 6y ago
What's SV to you? Most people I know in the greater Bay Area don't have the huge options or rsu grants. I think you FAANG folks forget you're in the minority with those huge stock grants that are worth something. My current company is going public and I will get about 25k per year (~100k vested over 4 years) from my options once they vest and that's basically it.
- almost_usual 6y ago
  Not to get your hopes up but there’s no reason your options won’t grow. You might be surprised what your total comp is in a few years.
  - Thrymr 6y ago
    They also might not grow! There is a wide range of outcomes, even for options when you appear to be headed for an IPO.
  - lambda_obrien 6y ago
    Even if they double in value, my total comp will be way, way below a similar salary level at a Google or Facebook, people don't realize just how lopsided the salary scales are at the giants. I work at a small startup that can sustain good growth at a decent rate (maybe our business will be 50 percent bigger per year) but not like 10x per year, for reference
mech422 6y ago
I've not found remote to be an issue salary wise. If you work in stuff that's hot, people don't care where you live and will pay to get scarce talent. I've been remote only now for 20 years, and being fully remote just gets easier all the time.

coffeefirst 6y ago

It's also bizarre to watch Silicon Valley engineers complain about taking a 10% salary cut with their 35% cost of living cut. The right way to do this, for what it's worth, is to have standard base salaries and regional CoL increases for the most expensive cities.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
Yep, it's a bit precious, annoying too for us people who work for a FAANG but not at the Bay Area HQ. Our salaries have already been adjusted for local conditions for years. If you transfer from, say, Google Mountain View out to Pittsburgh or Waterloo your compensation will be adjusted accordingly, including your RSUs. None of this is new or novel so it's weird to see people complain. In all likelihood these companies will continue to compensate generously relative to everyone else. It's their MO. It's pretty hard to complain as I watch working class people around me struggle to get by, or get sick working in "essential" industries. Friend of mine got COVID (likely) from work, carpenter at a petroleum plant. Mid 50s, but very healthy and fit, no health issues. Had to be rushed to hospital to get oxygen, was on his ass for weeks. Luckily a unionized job, but others not nearly as lucky. Personally I can't wait to be able to go back into the office, at least a couple days a week. Nice that my chronic back pain has improved a lot since I haven't been driving my commute daily though.
- eeZah7Ux 6y ago
  > It's pretty hard to complain as I watch working class people around me struggle to get by, or get sick working in "essential" industries. Now think about the places in the world where a developer gets paid 40k/y or 20, or 10.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    Why not simply improve their skill and join better companies?
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  > If you transfer from, say, Google Mountain View out to Pittsburgh or Waterloo your compensation will be adjusted accordingly, including your RSUs. None of this is new or novel so it's weird to see people complain. In the case of international locations (Waterloo) there's often a skill gap as well. Not everyone there would qualify to relocate to Mountain View.
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    ? There's no skill gap at all. Any employee at my office in Waterloo could transfer to Mountain View without any problem at all. Google would be very happy to make it happen. The only limitation would be the US immigration system. If anything the skill gap would be the other way around. The hiring bar is high at Google Waterloo.
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      That's not what I've seen. Transferring to Mountain View requires to re-interview. Satellite offices like Waterloo being harder to be hired into while simultaneously paying a fraction of Mountain View sounds... a little far fetched. There's probably more filtering happening at the satellite branch however. Just with the North Acquisition, they hired exactly nobody and shipped the product back to Mountain View right away.
      - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
        There's nothing far-fetched about compensation being less in Waterloo vs Silicon Valley due to factors unrelated to "skill". Google indexes compensation by cost of living. Not sure what the disconnect here is, since that's the origin of the topic chain. Also not sure where you get off making claims about people's skill levels, or who you are and what your knowledge of Google is, but you're making some very questionable claims. There's a reason Google has an office in Waterloo and it's growing aggressively, and it isn't to get lower quality or cheaper talent. Saying it's a "fraction of MTV" is also exaggerating. Google pays generously in Canada. Maybe you should apply and see how loose the standards are. There's no re-interview to move between offices or countries. The only "interview" would be to be accepted onto a team at the destination and then request the transfer. I know people who have gone both ways. For what it's worth, these days more people seem to be coming back to Canada than the other way around. Ability to move around is actually one of the perks of Google employment. As for acquisitions, I came into Google via acquisition 9 years ago. Of a company divided between US and Toronto. I am not privy to the details on North, and I haven't met those people yet because of not being in the office due to COVID etc, but they report up into the same general product area as me. They definitely brought in many of those people as employees in Waterloo. If it's like the acquisition I was part of, not everyone gets an offer, some get put on contract, etc.
eeZah7Ux 6y ago
> It's also bizarre to watch Silicon Valley engineers complain about taking a 10% salary cut with their 35% cost of living cut. Greed is irrational. If you consider the time saved by not having to go to work and all the benefits of being able to work from any location, the difference is even bigger.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  The greed is on the part of the company. If they are getting the same amount of work, then they should pay everyone the same regardless of where they live.
driverdan 6y ago
The right way to do this is pay people based on their value to the company and not care where they live.
jbay808 6y ago
> complain about taking a 10% salary cut with their 35% cost of living cut Where do you draw the line? Do you think a 35% salary cut would be reasonable to complain about? At some point, in moving from Seattle to Winnipeg, if your salary gets adjusted from being able to afford a small apartment in downtown Seattle to being able to afford a small apartment in downtown Winnipeg... At some point that becomes a bad deal, right?
- coffeefirst 6y ago
  Of course, there’s a way to do it that would be outrageous if you assume the worst. And perhaps the anxiety around this is really because they didn’t publish hard numbers. But in a lot of cases, the average FAANG engineer who takes this route will be leaving their small apartment for somewhere they can buy a house.
  - jbay808 6y ago
    Yes - but that house is probably affordable because of the savings they've accumulated in Seattle/SF.

neuland 6y ago

I pulled the trigger on remote years ago and took a about a 5% salary cut. The state I moved to has an income tax. However after adjusting for lower income tax, cost of living [0], and my RSU's being unaffected, I ended up slightly ahead. After a couple years, the company did start adjusting RSU refreshes to reduce grants to people outside of top cities. Even with that though, I'm still breaking even or ahead. Just another voice saying that you need to do the math and think about your company's policies. You can only account for changing policies so much. I got in at a time when the deal was very good. Today, my salary reduction would be much higher (2-3x the reduction) and all other comp has caught up to being location adjusted. But, the deal at my company can still be good as long as you check the math. Another gotcha to watch out for is benefits. Make sure the company health care plan(s) have doctors in-network where you are moving. Since health care networks are very regional, this is not always the case. I had to switch plans. Also, you won't be able to use a lot of the other tech company perks that people don't price in a lot: free food/snacks/drinks, gym, spa, health center, daycare, etc. Though some company's will give you money to get a gym membership, but probably not the other things. [0] The cost of living savings mostly came from housing. But nearly everything local (grocery's, restaurants, gas, etc) is 30% to 50% cheaper where I'm at, which adds up quick too.

ignoramous 6y ago

Move to HQ, toil for the promotion there and those nice grants that come along with it. Return back to the home country/city. This was a common strategy at a FAANG I was at. People wiped off generational debts with this strategy because strong dollar and bull market.

lambda_obrien 6y ago

What's SV to you? Most people I know in the greater Bay Area don't have the huge options or rsu grants. I think you FAANG folks forget you're in the minority with those huge stock grants that are worth something. My current company is going public and I will get about 25k per year (~100k vested over 4 years) from my options once they vest and that's basically it.

almost_usual 6y ago
Not to get your hopes up but there’s no reason your options won’t grow. You might be surprised what your total comp is in a few years.
- Thrymr 6y ago
  They also might not grow! There is a wide range of outcomes, even for options when you appear to be headed for an IPO.
- lambda_obrien 6y ago
  Even if they double in value, my total comp will be way, way below a similar salary level at a Google or Facebook, people don't realize just how lopsided the salary scales are at the giants. I work at a small startup that can sustain good growth at a decent rate (maybe our business will be 50 percent bigger per year) but not like 10x per year, for reference

mech422 6y ago

I've not found remote to be an issue salary wise. If you work in stuff that's hot, people don't care where you live and will pay to get scarce talent. I've been remote only now for 20 years, and being fully remote just gets easier all the time.