4 ms·

Will we ever see this technology any time soon or is this like battery tech?

maxerickson 6y ago
Lithium ion batteries went through an incredible revolution the last 10 years, prices dropped by a factor of ~10. https://twitter.com/ProfRayWills/status/1342632562477264896 https://twitter.com/ProfRayWills/status/1342632562477264896
- eloff 6y ago
  That's ironically why we don't see new battery tech materialize. It has to come out of the gate more cost efficient than Li Ion, which is a tall order now with all the efficiencies of scale the latter enjoys. I believe the term technological lock in is used to describe this problem.
  - choeger 6y ago
    That's not entirely true. The technique to mass-produce Li ion cells (basically: create massive sandwiches and roll them) can probably be applied to most other chemistries.
    - eloff 6y ago
      I think that's mostly only superficially similar, but I'm not an expert in the field.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    Chemically it is hard to believe that we can do better than lithium anyway.
    - eloff 6y ago
      I don't know about that, but we could definitely do cheaper though.
- simonh 6y ago
  I still clearly remember the Nickel-Cadmium days. Kids don't know they're born. ;)
CyberDildonics 6y ago
Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are close to regular lion batteries but don't use manganese or cobalt and are much more durable. They have much higher discharge rates and can undergo around 8x the cycles, making their cost over time significantly better than regular lithium ion. Lithium Titanate batteries have even more durability. Both of these are fairly recent to being available commercially.
- driverdan 6y ago
  LiFePO4 batteries have been available for 5+ years. They aren't used in portable devices because they have lower energy density than other lithium batteries. They're great for fixed installations where density isn't an issue.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    I think density per volume is similar, but density per weight is a little less from them being heavier. They should work fine in plenty of portable situations, not everything is a drone. Power tools, universal battery packs that offer AC, USB, etc., scooters, motorcycles, and all sorts of other stuff should work very well. Even golf carts and some scooters use lead acid batteries.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - baybal2 6y ago
    LFP batteries were around for close to 15 years. First BYD EVs came out almost at the same time as Tesla Roadster.
Gibbon1 6y ago
It's like battery tech in that there are a lot of false starts and dead ends. And commercialization tends to play out over 1-2 decades. That said I think the title using the word break through is clickybait. More honest title would be marginal improvement might lead to low capital costs for desalinated water plants.

Lithium ion batteries went through an incredible revolution the last 10 years, prices dropped by a factor of ~10. https://twitter.com/ProfRayWills/status/1342632562477264896 https://twitter.com/ProfRayWills/status/1342632562477264896

eloff 6y ago
That's ironically why we don't see new battery tech materialize. It has to come out of the gate more cost efficient than Li Ion, which is a tall order now with all the efficiencies of scale the latter enjoys. I believe the term technological lock in is used to describe this problem.
- choeger 6y ago
  That's not entirely true. The technique to mass-produce Li ion cells (basically: create massive sandwiches and roll them) can probably be applied to most other chemistries.
  - eloff 6y ago
    I think that's mostly only superficially similar, but I'm not an expert in the field.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Chemically it is hard to believe that we can do better than lithium anyway.
  - eloff 6y ago
    I don't know about that, but we could definitely do cheaper though.
simonh 6y ago
I still clearly remember the Nickel-Cadmium days. Kids don't know they're born. ;)

CyberDildonics 6y ago

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are close to regular lion batteries but don't use manganese or cobalt and are much more durable. They have much higher discharge rates and can undergo around 8x the cycles, making their cost over time significantly better than regular lithium ion. Lithium Titanate batteries have even more durability. Both of these are fairly recent to being available commercially.

driverdan 6y ago
LiFePO4 batteries have been available for 5+ years. They aren't used in portable devices because they have lower energy density than other lithium batteries. They're great for fixed installations where density isn't an issue.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  I think density per volume is similar, but density per weight is a little less from them being heavier. They should work fine in plenty of portable situations, not everything is a drone. Power tools, universal battery packs that offer AC, USB, etc., scooters, motorcycles, and all sorts of other stuff should work very well. Even golf carts and some scooters use lead acid batteries.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- baybal2 6y ago
  LFP batteries were around for close to 15 years. First BYD EVs came out almost at the same time as Tesla Roadster.

Gibbon1 6y ago

It's like battery tech in that there are a lot of false starts and dead ends. And commercialization tends to play out over 1-2 decades. That said I think the title using the word break through is clickybait. More honest title would be marginal improvement might lead to low capital costs for desalinated water plants.