11 ms·

> But isn't this typical to R&D ? that only 1 of N projects gets used for commercial purposes ? The OP forgot to mention that one of the goals in the Horizon20

by rualca 6y ago

> But isn't this typical to R&D ? that only 1 of N projects gets used for commercial purposes ? The OP forgot to mention that one of the goals in the Horizon2020 projects is to provide incentives to create pan-european collaborations involving industrial, academic, and institutional organizations. In short, they are aimed to bridge the gap between academia and industry, and also create synergies between multiple organizations across Europe. For example, some programs require applicants to partner with research institutions and industrial companies of significant and arbitrary size to be able to even submit a proposal. Thus, it's disingenuous to evaluate the success of these programs in terms of commercial products being developed out of these programs. The political goals of developing collaborations between member-states is far more important than delivering a gadget or a trinket. Similarly, we have the Erasmus program that enable higher-education students to spend a year in a school from a member state somewhere in Europe. It's disingenuous to assume the goal of the Erasmus program is solely academic.

Radim 6y ago
As someone who came from academia, now runs a commercial company, and having participated in several large consortia projects (including Horizon 2020), I find your perspective… charming. I hope you never get to experience how the sausage is made. And where you taxes really go.
- touisteur 6y ago
  I agree it's very difficult to run large-scale research projects with consortia, etc. And even worse at EU scale with public money. I'm not sure whether there's a better way to balance the admin-load against all the scamming, or to avoid 'favoring' one nation's industry or other. When you do something on processors, you'll probably have to keep the door open to all big & small European actors, right? I feel all the administrative overload is a way to avoid all kinds of political problems. Yes, Europeans complain about bureaucracy from the EU and here about the ERC, but the moment someone comes with more 'pragmatic' processes, either you see some 10+MEUR-level abuse quite quickly, or you get some blast about bad management of the tax payers money, and calls for more oversight. I don't have a solution, and without a united EU military/defense budget I don't see anything DARPA-like emerging. And it seems only European military budgets (still sovereign) and regional budgets (regionalism being, to me, the biggest flaw in the modern EU vision) seem spent on 'low admin we trust you let's try this just convince this panel of scientists and admins' funding. While I think it's great for labs/research funding, for product derisking and creating competitive edges for the local industry, and for SMEs and overall high tech employment, you're not going to create a semiconductor industry like this. I've seen the results of several ERC consortia projects and am sometimes impressed with what EU-based research (academics+smb+large groups) can do with so little money (on each subject) and, yes, so much admin overhead.
- rualca 6y ago
  > I hope you never get to experience how the sausage is made. I appreciate your arrogance, but as you might notice by reading my comment I already have more than enough experience making said sausage. Thus your complete lack of arguments, which you tried to hide with snide remarks and an unimpressive attempt to appeal to authority, were dully noted.
  - Radim 6y ago
    > you might notice by reading my comment I already have more than enough experience making said sausage. I noticed nothing of the sort. No need to lash out – you probably meant to describe your experience but then forgot. I'd be curious to hear. I'm not psychic, and your account is anonymous. OK, so you've had good experience with the EU bureaucracy and its "innovation funding" schemes. What was you role in them?

by rualca 6y ago

Radim 6y ago

As someone who came from academia, now runs a commercial company, and having participated in several large consortia projects (including Horizon 2020), I find your perspective… charming. I hope you never get to experience how the sausage is made. And where you taxes really go.

touisteur 6y ago
I agree it's very difficult to run large-scale research projects with consortia, etc. And even worse at EU scale with public money. I'm not sure whether there's a better way to balance the admin-load against all the scamming, or to avoid 'favoring' one nation's industry or other. When you do something on processors, you'll probably have to keep the door open to all big & small European actors, right? I feel all the administrative overload is a way to avoid all kinds of political problems. Yes, Europeans complain about bureaucracy from the EU and here about the ERC, but the moment someone comes with more 'pragmatic' processes, either you see some 10+MEUR-level abuse quite quickly, or you get some blast about bad management of the tax payers money, and calls for more oversight. I don't have a solution, and without a united EU military/defense budget I don't see anything DARPA-like emerging. And it seems only European military budgets (still sovereign) and regional budgets (regionalism being, to me, the biggest flaw in the modern EU vision) seem spent on 'low admin we trust you let's try this just convince this panel of scientists and admins' funding. While I think it's great for labs/research funding, for product derisking and creating competitive edges for the local industry, and for SMEs and overall high tech employment, you're not going to create a semiconductor industry like this. I've seen the results of several ERC consortia projects and am sometimes impressed with what EU-based research (academics+smb+large groups) can do with so little money (on each subject) and, yes, so much admin overhead.
rualca 6y ago
> I hope you never get to experience how the sausage is made. I appreciate your arrogance, but as you might notice by reading my comment I already have more than enough experience making said sausage. Thus your complete lack of arguments, which you tried to hide with snide remarks and an unimpressive attempt to appeal to authority, were dully noted.
- Radim 6y ago
  > you might notice by reading my comment I already have more than enough experience making said sausage. I noticed nothing of the sort. No need to lash out – you probably meant to describe your experience but then forgot. I'd be curious to hear. I'm not psychic, and your account is anonymous. OK, so you've had good experience with the EU bureaucracy and its "innovation funding" schemes. What was you role in them?