4 ms·

They built a widely used and loved product, why not be proud?

prepend 6y ago
Should Cambridge Analytica love that its Facebook quizzes were widely used and loved? It’s a bad product that people get addicted to, so I wouldn’t want to work on it, much less be proud of it. It would be like being proud of inventing banner ads, or spam, or artificial trans fats, or telemarketing robocalls, etc etc
- watwut 6y ago
  > It’s a bad product that people get addicted to, Every time I hear about people having issues with partner being addicted to gaming, the game in question is PC or console game. Typically competitive online one, sometimes single player. It is rarely mobile game, like I never heard people complain about partner being addicted to Farmville. But, somehow, those games get defended each time.
  - ratww 6y ago
    The problem here is not the addiction to the game itself, but rather to the fact that sometimes they become a gambling addiction issue, with all the issues it brings. It ends up being a money pit for some people, with the worst offenders spending thousands of dollars a month on pay-to-play mobile games. Gambling addiction is also something that's normally hidden from the partner, and mobile games are great at allowing that, so there's also this difference. The partner won't see the issue until it's too late.
    - watwut 6y ago
      The thread was about addiction and anyway, calling these gambling is a stretch. You do know about partners gambling and people do complain about it. The partner and kids are typically the person who get the most of consequences. But my other point was about hypocrisy. People here go at length hating on Farmville and talking about addiction, because Farmville is not cool in their social circles and is game they personally dont like. You do not get the same outcry about games that are actually the most frequently mentioned by people who deal with gaming addiction issues. Those games are mentioned either positively or not at all. And if you would call the people who play those games feeble minded, you would not ended up upvoted.
      - BlueTemplar 6y ago
        They are considered psychologically akin to gambling, are being investigated in several countries under their relation with gambling, and at least one country (Belgium) has declared them to be gambling.
        watwut 6y ago
        And plenty of others concluded that calling Farmville gambling is absurd stretch. Besides, I found that Overwatch, FIFA 18, and Counter Strike: Global Offensive at considered "game of chance" in Belgium, because you place bet and win or loose. Not clickers like Farmville. I did not found a single article that would implied so.
        BlueTemplar 6y ago
        Because Farmville is irrelevant today ?
- pfisch 6y ago
  I feel like what is ignored in these conversations is that the vast majority of users just play this game as an entertaining piece of art. ~1% of problem users get addicted to games, whether they are FarmVille or smash brothers. That is just the way it is. It isn't right to squash the freedom of the vast majority of people because a small subset of users lack self control.
  - ergocoder 6y ago
    In other news, water is evil because someone drank too much water and died. These critics are unreal.
  - prepend 6y ago
    Most people play the lotto to release stress. But there are quite a few who abuse it (or it abuses them). I think it depends on the net benefits. It’s odd to pose it as “squashing freedom” as I don’t think that anyone is proposing that FarmVille be banned or made illegal. I just think it’s a bad thing to make and not something to be proud of. “I made a thing that lots of people like, but pisses lots of people off, is responsible for needless deaths, and lots of people wasted money.”
    - pfisch 6y ago
      I think you could contort logic to make any creation "bad" for some subset of people. Is any videogame a bad thing to make? What about movies that arguably can inspire mass shooters or other negative events to occur. Can the creators of smash brothers or dota not be proud either? Those games fuck some small subset of people up too. I played smash brothers for thousands of hours myself.
Traubenfuchs 6y ago
Same applies to drugs. Those game are micro-optimized to trick people into paying money for it. No one would ever say "The money I spent on farmville was well spent".
- wesleywt 6y ago
  How do you know this? A Farmville player might have been proud of his/her farm? It might have given them hours of pleasure and joy. Why should you dictate what they should feel?
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    Hell people who buy games literally say “I have no regret buying this sooner” I say it myself all the time!
- sergiomattei 6y ago
  I paid for a builder on Clash of Clans, a similar game. I didn't regret it, it added quite a bit to the game. People buy what they like. Just because you dislike Farmville doesn't give you the right to invalidate everyone else's enjoyment of the game.
antihero 6y ago
Heroin is also a widely used and loved product.
- sergiomattei 6y ago
  How is heroin even remotely relevant to a Facebook game?
  - antihero 6y ago
    Both are engineered to be highly addictive and people spend a huge amount of money on them, to the point that people could say that it is widely used and loved, despite being a detriment to users and society as a whole.
- ergocoder 6y ago
  That's not true. Most people hate Heroin. Some love it, of course.
  - antihero 6y ago
    It's hugely pernacious in our culture though, lots of songs and film reference it - obviously there's a lot of bad press but it is also hugely romanticised. A lot of the users thoroughly enjoy it, much like Farmville.
  - dillondoyle 6y ago
    It's great until it's not - story of most addictions

Should Cambridge Analytica love that its Facebook quizzes were widely used and loved? It’s a bad product that people get addicted to, so I wouldn’t want to work on it, much less be proud of it. It would be like being proud of inventing banner ads, or spam, or artificial trans fats, or telemarketing robocalls, etc etc

watwut 6y ago
> It’s a bad product that people get addicted to, Every time I hear about people having issues with partner being addicted to gaming, the game in question is PC or console game. Typically competitive online one, sometimes single player. It is rarely mobile game, like I never heard people complain about partner being addicted to Farmville. But, somehow, those games get defended each time.
- ratww 6y ago
  The problem here is not the addiction to the game itself, but rather to the fact that sometimes they become a gambling addiction issue, with all the issues it brings. It ends up being a money pit for some people, with the worst offenders spending thousands of dollars a month on pay-to-play mobile games. Gambling addiction is also something that's normally hidden from the partner, and mobile games are great at allowing that, so there's also this difference. The partner won't see the issue until it's too late.
  - watwut 6y ago
    The thread was about addiction and anyway, calling these gambling is a stretch. You do know about partners gambling and people do complain about it. The partner and kids are typically the person who get the most of consequences. But my other point was about hypocrisy. People here go at length hating on Farmville and talking about addiction, because Farmville is not cool in their social circles and is game they personally dont like. You do not get the same outcry about games that are actually the most frequently mentioned by people who deal with gaming addiction issues. Those games are mentioned either positively or not at all. And if you would call the people who play those games feeble minded, you would not ended up upvoted.
    - BlueTemplar 6y ago
      They are considered psychologically akin to gambling, are being investigated in several countries under their relation with gambling, and at least one country (Belgium) has declared them to be gambling.
      - watwut 6y ago
        And plenty of others concluded that calling Farmville gambling is absurd stretch. Besides, I found that Overwatch, FIFA 18, and Counter Strike: Global Offensive at considered "game of chance" in Belgium, because you place bet and win or loose. Not clickers like Farmville. I did not found a single article that would implied so.
        BlueTemplar 6y ago
        Because Farmville is irrelevant today ?
pfisch 6y ago
I feel like what is ignored in these conversations is that the vast majority of users just play this game as an entertaining piece of art. ~1% of problem users get addicted to games, whether they are FarmVille or smash brothers. That is just the way it is. It isn't right to squash the freedom of the vast majority of people because a small subset of users lack self control.
- ergocoder 6y ago
  In other news, water is evil because someone drank too much water and died. These critics are unreal.
- prepend 6y ago
  Most people play the lotto to release stress. But there are quite a few who abuse it (or it abuses them). I think it depends on the net benefits. It’s odd to pose it as “squashing freedom” as I don’t think that anyone is proposing that FarmVille be banned or made illegal. I just think it’s a bad thing to make and not something to be proud of. “I made a thing that lots of people like, but pisses lots of people off, is responsible for needless deaths, and lots of people wasted money.”
  - pfisch 6y ago
    I think you could contort logic to make any creation "bad" for some subset of people. Is any videogame a bad thing to make? What about movies that arguably can inspire mass shooters or other negative events to occur. Can the creators of smash brothers or dota not be proud either? Those games fuck some small subset of people up too. I played smash brothers for thousands of hours myself.

Traubenfuchs 6y ago

Same applies to drugs. Those game are micro-optimized to trick people into paying money for it. No one would ever say "The money I spent on farmville was well spent".

wesleywt 6y ago
How do you know this? A Farmville player might have been proud of his/her farm? It might have given them hours of pleasure and joy. Why should you dictate what they should feel?
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  Hell people who buy games literally say “I have no regret buying this sooner” I say it myself all the time!
sergiomattei 6y ago
I paid for a builder on Clash of Clans, a similar game. I didn't regret it, it added quite a bit to the game. People buy what they like. Just because you dislike Farmville doesn't give you the right to invalidate everyone else's enjoyment of the game.

antihero 6y ago

Heroin is also a widely used and loved product.

sergiomattei 6y ago
How is heroin even remotely relevant to a Facebook game?
- antihero 6y ago
  Both are engineered to be highly addictive and people spend a huge amount of money on them, to the point that people could say that it is widely used and loved, despite being a detriment to users and society as a whole.
ergocoder 6y ago
That's not true. Most people hate Heroin. Some love it, of course.
- antihero 6y ago
  It's hugely pernacious in our culture though, lots of songs and film reference it - obviously there's a lot of bad press but it is also hugely romanticised. A lot of the users thoroughly enjoy it, much like Farmville.
- dillondoyle 6y ago
  It's great until it's not - story of most addictions