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Such a tiresome and self-defeating mindset. If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption. Of course politics and lobbying wil
by simias 6y ago
Such a tiresome and self-defeating mindset. If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption.
Of course politics and lobbying will play a role when we're talking about hundreds of billions of euros, but that doesn't mean that it can't end up being a net positive for the union.
Ask for transparency and keep tabs, don't assume that it's already lost.
- rapsey 6y agoThis mindset is born out of seeing how the game is played and where the money goes from past initiatives. Why would this one be in any way different? To quote a very rich and slimey asshole I’ve interacted with who’s income is largely from such initiatives. It’s just money for papers.
- yulaow 6y agoAlmost any "federal government" branch in any national or transnational entity works that way. They still get results good enough to push technology forward by encouraging parallel private investments. I mean the whole USA tech sector was basically bootstrapped by federal money/grants/investments given in no different way of what EU is doing right now.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoAnd even earlier, in chemical and advanced manufacturing space - just how many of the well-known US companies started as small shops that got their hands on government grants during WWII?
- cinquemb 6y ago> … government grants during WWII Seems like we're missing some "proper" motivation/focus/constraints now like war on this scale can provide… not just the EU, but this kind of diktat-innovation is increasingly more present everywhere… Probably goes hand in hand with the ever present bailout olympics for those deemed TBTF…
- TeMPOraL 6y agoI used to believe the "proper motivation" - like winning the war - mattered. Then I read "War Is a Racket", a 1935 short book by US general Smedley Darlington Butler, which in many places argues that even during an active war, companies will happily steal and squander the war funding. So now I'm not sure how much you can expect from such motivation. Probably it's best to assume that some amount of graft will always happen, just dump the money, and hope something good comes out of it...
- cinquemb 6y agoWell i'm not sure gunboat diplomacy and banana/global policing wars provide sufficient motivation compared to total wars… can only steal and squander so much before your factories get bombed and supply chains crippled. I would agree if only the money dumps stopped ending up going mostly in the same places… lol
- LudwigNagasena 6y ago> USA tech sector was basically bootstrapped by federal money/grants/investments given in no different way of what EU is doing right now There are MANY different ways to channel money into business or non-profit R&D. I doubt you can ignore all the differences and declare that what the US and the EU do or did is the same. I am not saying it doesn’t exist, but I am personally not aware of any similar multibillion declaration made by the US.
- rhn_mk1 6y agoWhy don't you instead quote a source that proves that it's a pointless giveaway? Without it, your post seems like mud slinging.
- vincnetas 6y agoAsk for transparency and report slimey assholes. If you want the change, be the change.
- rapsey 6y agoYeah sure lemme go against a guy with half the government in his pocket. Life is not a movie.
- makomk 6y agoReporting corruption only works if there's someone to report it to who has both the power and the political will to actually do something about it. That simply does not exist within the EU as an institution. I don't think it's possible to easily explain exactly what's wrong with the EU's accountability and anti-corruption structures; endless column inches have been spent on the problems, mostly in somewhat niche publications and read mainly by people deeply interested in EU politics. (Which may also be part of the problem. Even before Brexit, few cared, and the political polarization around Brexit has pushed the idea that the EU has structural problems outside the realm of mainstream discourse. Take a look at the comments in this HN discussion for example!)
- baxtr 6y agoCan you name examples of EU initiatives on that level that delivered the desired results? EDIT: I am asking because I seriously want to know. I haven’t made up my mind yet what to think about the whole thing. I am not familiar with successful EU initiatives. I’m open in believing this can work if there were successful examples in the past.
- agumonkey 6y agoI thought Airbus was one.
- WanderPanda 6y agoYou mean that resource wasting shop, that is sending huge airplane parts all across Europe for political reasons? I don’t even want to start about the subsidies considered illegal by the wto...
- m4rtink 6y agoWell, it seems to be competitive with Boeing & no one else really stepped up doing it the "proper" way so far.
- ju-st 6y agoWell, Boeing is doing the same things. Transporting 737 fuselages through the US and illegal subsidies. And I'm not even mentioning the 737 debacle.
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoMaybe those are just table stakes in this sort of market
- WanderPanda 6y agoIsn’t that the kind of outcome you would expect from such a monopoly (/duopoly)? Even if a company could be more efficient it would not make sense for them to try to compete
- Neputys 6y agoaaand here's a typical representative of said companies "positive for the union", "ask for transparency"...
- wwwwwwwww 6y ago> If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption. Wrong. Its not about "doing something", its about doing the right thing. And they don't.
- smhg 6y agoEven if done inefficient (to which standard?) the current state of doing things can be a net positive.
- LudwigNagasena 6y ago> If the EU does nothing it's useless, if it does something it's just corruption. Well, surely there are other ways to try to improve things besides doing nothing and bureaucratic grant schemes.
- xondono 6y agoBecause what the EU countries need to do is to get out of the way.
- flembat 6y agoWe can do more than one thing at a time, so the EU can be both useless and corrupt.