4 ms·

And on another note... it's been hilarious how people have been questioning my professional credentials just because I want to make something more usable. I've

by unconed 15y ago

And on another note... it's been hilarious how people have been questioning my professional credentials just because I want to make something more usable. I've implemented over a dozen RFCs, can match regexps with the best of them and do know which end of a pipe does what ;).

wladimir 15y ago
I'm also a bit disappointed on how most people here react. I personally think your idea is great and pretty futuristic. I would certainly use a tool like this. Also it's open source so if a specific detail (such as the font) bugs them it can simply be changed. I've had similar ideas (based on Python) but never got around to executing them. Keep up the good work and don't let the angry bearded UNIX dinosaurs get to you :)
- unconed 15y ago
  I'm having a blast and interpreting all the flak as a sign I must be doing something right...
  - sudonim 15y ago
    Absolutely! Don't lose that attitude. You won't win over everyone and the fact that anyone cares enough about something you made to share their opinion with you is awesome.
  - maratd 15y ago
    Bingo. If you haven't pissed anyone off, it's because you're not doing anything important. There are people who invested DECADES of their life into a vanilla terminal ... and here you are, fucking with THAT.
    - l3vitat3 15y ago
      the only thing that pisses me off is the guy posting how many years he was administering UNIX systems and how this monster was an "obvious" step in the field, web designers are quite arrogant
  - mariuskempe 15y ago
    I'm so impressed with that. If I was getting that much criticism (for something so obviously excellent!) I'd be shaking in my boots. :-(
    - unconed 15y ago
      Well, a few years ago I made this Line Rider video, and then 10,000 people on YouTube told me to get a life. Who cares what people on the internet say, they're the ones wasting their time posting it.
- unconed 15y ago
  Regarding your quote problem: the idea is that the highlighted token signifies "quoted string". I plan to add regexp tokens, user@host tokens, etc. each with appropriate autocomplete. I thought the current minimalistic approach was ok, but it might be worth to add subtle quotes around the edges to reinforce the idea. That's why it's made out of HTML/CSS...
  - wladimir 15y ago
    The token idea is genius. This could be applied to programming languages as well. Why settle with crazy delimiters like ',"; /xxx/ and manual escaping with \n \x \\\\\\ (making a \ in a regexp in a string :P). A subtle visual hint could be enough to distinguish different kinds of textual "object". Sure, not everyone will like this, but for people that are visually oriented like me it will make things a lot of fun.
  - JoshTriplett 15y ago
    "quoted string" or 'quoted string'? Big difference. :)
    - unconed 15y ago
      The difference is in whether escaping is necessary. What happens when you no longer need to escape things? It no longer matters which quotes you use.
  - bostonvaulter2 15y ago
    That sounds great, although I would like to have a nice fall-back for those odd programs that the terminal doesn't know the appropriate token for.
- hmottestad 15y ago
  I agree. I haven't actually tried your terminal, but so far it looks very nice. Considering that when the interface for the terminal was created it was all about being able to do everything and anything without breaking a sweat. Simple things like automatic source code highlighting, animated progress bars, being able to view (now common) files like pdf and jpeg that were not common back in the old days. Popup tab complete, I can't believe that that isn't standard on all terminals already (especially since tab complete is all about being lazy, a popup makes a lot of sense). I'll download the source and poke around it later this evening (right now I need to work on my exam of implementing the go-back-n protocol). Cheers and keep up the good work. PS: RDF support would be great (since you have json). RDF is the standard for sharing data (often statistics) openly online, check out http://data.gov.uk/linked-data http://data.gov.uk/linked-data
- krakensden 15y ago
  It's not futuristic, it's retro. I've seen three or four of these be announced with great fanfare, and then dropped. No one cares enough, the backwards compatibility is never good enough, and it's almost certainly too slow.
  - wladimir 15y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if Webkit was just as fast or even faster in rendering than your average Linux terminal emulator. About caring enough, yeah, that depends, maybe the world is ready for this now :) At least it isn't some overengineered XML grotesquery this time.
    - l3vitat3 15y ago
      that webkit will render faster than a terminal emulator is just pure fantasy, is like saying that a smart phone with all the fancy apps will eventually use less power than a solar powered calculator. you ppl are addicted to osx overdesign. no graphical user interface will beat a keyboard in the right hands, like it or not. pure fantasy, hipster hackers
      - wladimir 15y ago
        What was the last time you had any problems with the rendering speed of Webkit in reality? Have you tried the other link in HN, that boots Linux in your browser, with a terminal app, and it still manages to be fast even on my modest system? Have you looked at some WebGL / Canvas based demos lately? There are now very efficient GPU offloaded rendering APIs that make rendering graphics a breeze, it is no longer a big-overhead thing. If you don't use fancy graphics you're underutilizing your GPU. [also, TermKit is not just about fancy graphics, but also about user friendlyness/usefullness for some tasks that are not very well handled in terminals otherwise]
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
roqetman 15y ago
It is amusing how we hackers, who are supposed to embrace change, become as Luddite as anyone else when our sacred tools are questioned. Personally I see room for this and a whole lot more. I'd like to see an amalgam of this and the traditional terminal (easy way to pull up a traditional terminal if you need it). There is no need to "replace"; I think this makes a fine addition to a hackers workspace.
- colomon 15y ago
  Thing is, it's not about the tools being sacred. My problem with this is that he's not just solving problems I don't have -- he's solving them in a way that would make my problems worse! For instance, I very rarely want more informations about the files from an "ls" command; and if I did, I'd probably use Finder instead. On the other hand, not having enough terminal real estate to display the entire directory at once is a very frequent problem. From that perspective, adding icons is a step in the wrong direction. Thinking about it, if I were playing with making a better terminal, one of my first lines of thought would be things that made it quick and easy to break information out into other windows, because scrolling back and forth in the terminal's buffer is a PITA. Of course, this new terminal might be exactly what the author needs, and more power to him if it is. There's no need for us all to use the same tools. (Thanks heavens -- I want nothing to do with Emacs or vi!)
  - bostonvaulter2 15y ago
    Regarding the too-small windows for ls output option I would love if his ls could display it's output full-screen temporarily rather than needing to make the terminal full-screen first and then running ls
  - 9999 15y ago
    "if I did, I'd probably use Finder instead." The thing that strikes me as very, very cool about this project is that you might not need the Finder at all any more.
    - colomon 15y ago
uniclaude 15y ago
It's just my point of view, I don't really like the stance seem to take here. You built something great, made it open source, which is even more great, and you're here to answer people, which is amazing. Now, please don't act like "I implemented x RFCs, I can do y like the best...", it's simply useless here. One reason is that people already know you can code well, and they can even read your source if they want to know better, there's no need to brag. Another reason is that HN is the place of some very good developers, and I believe humility is appreciated here, at least until you build some life changing software (and I won't debate about what is or is not life changing). Anyways, thanks for building this and releasing the source code as open, it's cool.
- scott_s 15y ago
  He brought up his own credentials because he is amused that others have questioned them. I find that reasonable and not "bragging."
jessedhillon 15y ago
I love the idea. But as someone who also loves vim, to hear that your vision of a new terminal excludes a tool as powerful and expressive as vim makes me sad, because it means that apparently I won't be able to benefit from this new terminal. I'll watch with interest, however.
- unconed 15y ago
  If I can make TermKit deliver on its promise, then I'm pretty sure on of you vim guys will take a VT100 JS emulator and make it work in TermKit. Again, the architecture supports it.

by unconed 15y ago

wladimir 15y ago

I'm also a bit disappointed on how most people here react. I personally think your idea is great and pretty futuristic. I would certainly use a tool like this. Also it's open source so if a specific detail (such as the font) bugs them it can simply be changed. I've had similar ideas (based on Python) but never got around to executing them. Keep up the good work and don't let the angry bearded UNIX dinosaurs get to you :)

unconed 15y ago
I'm having a blast and interpreting all the flak as a sign I must be doing something right...
- sudonim 15y ago
  Absolutely! Don't lose that attitude. You won't win over everyone and the fact that anyone cares enough about something you made to share their opinion with you is awesome.
- maratd 15y ago
  Bingo. If you haven't pissed anyone off, it's because you're not doing anything important. There are people who invested DECADES of their life into a vanilla terminal ... and here you are, fucking with THAT.
  - l3vitat3 15y ago
    the only thing that pisses me off is the guy posting how many years he was administering UNIX systems and how this monster was an "obvious" step in the field, web designers are quite arrogant
- mariuskempe 15y ago
  I'm so impressed with that. If I was getting that much criticism (for something so obviously excellent!) I'd be shaking in my boots. :-(
  - unconed 15y ago
    Well, a few years ago I made this Line Rider video, and then 10,000 people on YouTube told me to get a life. Who cares what people on the internet say, they're the ones wasting their time posting it.
unconed 15y ago
Regarding your quote problem: the idea is that the highlighted token signifies "quoted string". I plan to add regexp tokens, user@host tokens, etc. each with appropriate autocomplete. I thought the current minimalistic approach was ok, but it might be worth to add subtle quotes around the edges to reinforce the idea. That's why it's made out of HTML/CSS...
- wladimir 15y ago
  The token idea is genius. This could be applied to programming languages as well. Why settle with crazy delimiters like ',"; /xxx/ and manual escaping with \n \x \\\\\\ (making a \ in a regexp in a string :P). A subtle visual hint could be enough to distinguish different kinds of textual "object". Sure, not everyone will like this, but for people that are visually oriented like me it will make things a lot of fun.
- JoshTriplett 15y ago
  "quoted string" or 'quoted string'? Big difference. :)
  - unconed 15y ago
    The difference is in whether escaping is necessary. What happens when you no longer need to escape things? It no longer matters which quotes you use.
- bostonvaulter2 15y ago
  That sounds great, although I would like to have a nice fall-back for those odd programs that the terminal doesn't know the appropriate token for.
hmottestad 15y ago
I agree. I haven't actually tried your terminal, but so far it looks very nice. Considering that when the interface for the terminal was created it was all about being able to do everything and anything without breaking a sweat. Simple things like automatic source code highlighting, animated progress bars, being able to view (now common) files like pdf and jpeg that were not common back in the old days. Popup tab complete, I can't believe that that isn't standard on all terminals already (especially since tab complete is all about being lazy, a popup makes a lot of sense). I'll download the source and poke around it later this evening (right now I need to work on my exam of implementing the go-back-n protocol). Cheers and keep up the good work. PS: RDF support would be great (since you have json). RDF is the standard for sharing data (often statistics) openly online, check out http://data.gov.uk/linked-data http://data.gov.uk/linked-data
krakensden 15y ago
It's not futuristic, it's retro. I've seen three or four of these be announced with great fanfare, and then dropped. No one cares enough, the backwards compatibility is never good enough, and it's almost certainly too slow.
- wladimir 15y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if Webkit was just as fast or even faster in rendering than your average Linux terminal emulator. About caring enough, yeah, that depends, maybe the world is ready for this now :) At least it isn't some overengineered XML grotesquery this time.
  - l3vitat3 15y ago
    that webkit will render faster than a terminal emulator is just pure fantasy, is like saying that a smart phone with all the fancy apps will eventually use less power than a solar powered calculator. you ppl are addicted to osx overdesign. no graphical user interface will beat a keyboard in the right hands, like it or not. pure fantasy, hipster hackers
    - wladimir 15y ago
      What was the last time you had any problems with the rendering speed of Webkit in reality? Have you tried the other link in HN, that boots Linux in your browser, with a terminal app, and it still manages to be fast even on my modest system? Have you looked at some WebGL / Canvas based demos lately? There are now very efficient GPU offloaded rendering APIs that make rendering graphics a breeze, it is no longer a big-overhead thing. If you don't use fancy graphics you're underutilizing your GPU. [also, TermKit is not just about fancy graphics, but also about user friendlyness/usefullness for some tasks that are not very well handled in terminals otherwise]
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]

roqetman 15y ago

It is amusing how we hackers, who are supposed to embrace change, become as Luddite as anyone else when our sacred tools are questioned. Personally I see room for this and a whole lot more. I'd like to see an amalgam of this and the traditional terminal (easy way to pull up a traditional terminal if you need it). There is no need to "replace"; I think this makes a fine addition to a hackers workspace.

colomon 15y ago
Thing is, it's not about the tools being sacred. My problem with this is that he's not just solving problems I don't have -- he's solving them in a way that would make my problems worse! For instance, I very rarely want more informations about the files from an "ls" command; and if I did, I'd probably use Finder instead. On the other hand, not having enough terminal real estate to display the entire directory at once is a very frequent problem. From that perspective, adding icons is a step in the wrong direction. Thinking about it, if I were playing with making a better terminal, one of my first lines of thought would be things that made it quick and easy to break information out into other windows, because scrolling back and forth in the terminal's buffer is a PITA. Of course, this new terminal might be exactly what the author needs, and more power to him if it is. There's no need for us all to use the same tools. (Thanks heavens -- I want nothing to do with Emacs or vi!)
- bostonvaulter2 15y ago
  Regarding the too-small windows for ls output option I would love if his ls could display it's output full-screen temporarily rather than needing to make the terminal full-screen first and then running ls
- 9999 15y ago
  "if I did, I'd probably use Finder instead." The thing that strikes me as very, very cool about this project is that you might not need the Finder at all any more.
  - colomon 15y ago

uniclaude 15y ago

It's just my point of view, I don't really like the stance seem to take here. You built something great, made it open source, which is even more great, and you're here to answer people, which is amazing. Now, please don't act like "I implemented x RFCs, I can do y like the best...", it's simply useless here. One reason is that people already know you can code well, and they can even read your source if they want to know better, there's no need to brag. Another reason is that HN is the place of some very good developers, and I believe humility is appreciated here, at least until you build some life changing software (and I won't debate about what is or is not life changing). Anyways, thanks for building this and releasing the source code as open, it's cool.

scott_s 15y ago
He brought up his own credentials because he is amused that others have questioned them. I find that reasonable and not "bragging."

jessedhillon 15y ago

I love the idea. But as someone who also loves vim, to hear that your vision of a new terminal excludes a tool as powerful and expressive as vim makes me sad, because it means that apparently I won't be able to benefit from this new terminal. I'll watch with interest, however.

unconed 15y ago
If I can make TermKit deliver on its promise, then I'm pretty sure on of you vim guys will take a VT100 JS emulator and make it work in TermKit. Again, the architecture supports it.