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> I use Bitcoin where ever possible, so your opening claim is wrong. Just because a random guy barters bitcoins for goods/services, that by no means implies th

by rualca 6y ago

> I use Bitcoin where ever possible, so your opening claim is wrong. Just because a random guy barters bitcoins for goods/services, that by no means implies that bitcoin is anything close to money. There is a very specific definition of what money is, and bitcoin's volatility alone rules it completely out.

newdude116 6y ago
Well bitcoin is as much money as FIAT money, except if you consider money credit. Than indeed, bitcoin would not be money.
- bluedevil2k 6y ago
  The US government would not accept BTC as payment for anything, so it is definitely NOT a fiat money.
  - phpwutz 6y ago
    The actual only criteria of fiat money I learned in austrian high school was "government will accept taxes in that currency". We have quiet a long history of taxes here, ranging from cows or sacks of grain to gold to gold coins to gulden to reichsmark to schilling to euro. Probably a good measure of centuries more than the US (which basically got kickstarted with the UK system at the time). Funnily enough, the above definition was the only thing holding true through the centuries. Thing is, if your government accepts taxes in a certain currency (even if it's a foreign one, that's perfectly fine too) it creates a stability by itself which fosters the usability (call it user friendlyness if you like) of the currency. In that sense, I'm fairly sure that unless you are personal friends with the president you cannot pay your taxes in Euro the same way you cannot pay them in ₿, Pesos or ¥ because the currency the US claims their taxes in is USD. Please prove me wrong or gib a better definition if I'm wrong :) Happy New Year everyone!
- rualca 6y ago
  > Than indeed, bitcoin would not be money. Bitcoin is obviously not money, and among the many reasons the fact that it does not serve as a store of value nor a means to defer payments, which is a single requirement that comprised the very definition of money, is just one of them.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Well bitcoin is as much money as FIAT money No, it's not. It’s too volatile to be an efficient store of value or a useful unit of account for general purposes; it's got some use as a competitive medium of exchange for certain circumstances (but again not really with the generality of any major fiat currency.) It's commodity that seems to (retrospectively, at least, and there is some reason to expect this to continue for the near future) have good investment performance if you are in a position to wait out down periods, which makes it nice as a component of an investment portfolio. It's good at things that aren't the purpose of money, but mostly not good for things that are the purposes of money, except for a narrow subset of one of three major purposes of money.
wongarsu 6y ago
It's not one guy bartering, it's a lot of services offering it as a payment option, treating it effectively like a foreign currency with a different set of payment providers
- rualca 6y ago
  > It's not one guy bartering It takes two to barter. > treating it effectively like a foreign currency They really aren't. They accept bitcoins in exchange for goods/services, just like we see in any barter system. Calling bitcoins "foreign currency" is just a desperate attempt to hide the obvious consequences of it's volatility, which eliminates it's role as money, not only as a store of value but also as unit of account. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money
sunshinerag 6y ago
oh what is this very specific definition of what money is does the non-random guy on internet have?
- rualca 6y ago
  > oh what is this very specific definition of what money is does the non-random guy on internet have? Each and every single random guy on the internet who wants to buy stuff with money cares about money, and the properties that allow something to work as money. Specifically, properties like being stable in its value within the market, and reliable both as a means of deferred payments and meet debts. Bitcoin, or any cryptocurrency, is nothing of the sort. Far from it.
  - sunshinerag 6y ago
    >> Bitcoin, or any cryptocurrency, is nothing of the sort. Far from it. For some random guys on the internet. yes. Some other guys are using it without waiting for it to be everything the previous system had. (deferred payments etc.).

by rualca 6y ago

newdude116 6y ago

Well bitcoin is as much money as FIAT money, except if you consider money credit. Than indeed, bitcoin would not be money.

bluedevil2k 6y ago
The US government would not accept BTC as payment for anything, so it is definitely NOT a fiat money.
- phpwutz 6y ago
  The actual only criteria of fiat money I learned in austrian high school was "government will accept taxes in that currency". We have quiet a long history of taxes here, ranging from cows or sacks of grain to gold to gold coins to gulden to reichsmark to schilling to euro. Probably a good measure of centuries more than the US (which basically got kickstarted with the UK system at the time). Funnily enough, the above definition was the only thing holding true through the centuries. Thing is, if your government accepts taxes in a certain currency (even if it's a foreign one, that's perfectly fine too) it creates a stability by itself which fosters the usability (call it user friendlyness if you like) of the currency. In that sense, I'm fairly sure that unless you are personal friends with the president you cannot pay your taxes in Euro the same way you cannot pay them in ₿, Pesos or ¥ because the currency the US claims their taxes in is USD. Please prove me wrong or gib a better definition if I'm wrong :) Happy New Year everyone!
rualca 6y ago
> Than indeed, bitcoin would not be money. Bitcoin is obviously not money, and among the many reasons the fact that it does not serve as a store of value nor a means to defer payments, which is a single requirement that comprised the very definition of money, is just one of them.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Well bitcoin is as much money as FIAT money No, it's not. It’s too volatile to be an efficient store of value or a useful unit of account for general purposes; it's got some use as a competitive medium of exchange for certain circumstances (but again not really with the generality of any major fiat currency.) It's commodity that seems to (retrospectively, at least, and there is some reason to expect this to continue for the near future) have good investment performance if you are in a position to wait out down periods, which makes it nice as a component of an investment portfolio. It's good at things that aren't the purpose of money, but mostly not good for things that are the purposes of money, except for a narrow subset of one of three major purposes of money.

wongarsu 6y ago

It's not one guy bartering, it's a lot of services offering it as a payment option, treating it effectively like a foreign currency with a different set of payment providers

rualca 6y ago
> It's not one guy bartering It takes two to barter. > treating it effectively like a foreign currency They really aren't. They accept bitcoins in exchange for goods/services, just like we see in any barter system. Calling bitcoins "foreign currency" is just a desperate attempt to hide the obvious consequences of it's volatility, which eliminates it's role as money, not only as a store of value but also as unit of account. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

sunshinerag 6y ago

oh what is this very specific definition of what money is does the non-random guy on internet have?

rualca 6y ago
> oh what is this very specific definition of what money is does the non-random guy on internet have? Each and every single random guy on the internet who wants to buy stuff with money cares about money, and the properties that allow something to work as money. Specifically, properties like being stable in its value within the market, and reliable both as a means of deferred payments and meet debts. Bitcoin, or any cryptocurrency, is nothing of the sort. Far from it.
- sunshinerag 6y ago
  >> Bitcoin, or any cryptocurrency, is nothing of the sort. Far from it. For some random guys on the internet. yes. Some other guys are using it without waiting for it to be everything the previous system had. (deferred payments etc.).