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So true. There’s this funny line in one of Paul Graham’s essays where he says something like “making the wrong technology decision can doom your business - like
by rcurry 6y ago
So true. There’s this funny line in one of Paul Graham’s essays where he says something like “making the wrong technology decision can doom your business - like choosing Windows in the 90s” I got such a kick out of that because I worked for CyberTrader in the 90s; we built our whole platform around Windows and wiped the floor with our competitors. We ended up the top day trading company in the US and were acquired by Charles Schwab for just shy of $500m. But at the time, you pit Windows NT with IOCP against anything else and it was game over in the low latency trading space.
- nikanj 6y agoReading the old NT debugging blogs and Raymond Chan’s stuff was very eye-opening. Microsoft has incredibly talented engineers ready to help Solve Problems, not just toss you the source code and wish you luck.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tenebrisalietum 6y agoCool, maybe they'll solve the problem of Teams freezing up constantly someday.
- superjan 6y agoTry disabling gpu rendering.
- oblio 6y agoI think that's the generic solution to Electron apps issues :-))
- gerdesj 6y agoThat works OK, even on Linux (anecdotally)
- codercotton 6y agoI will kiss you if this works.
- rufugee 6y agoThis basically makes Teams so slow it’s unusable...
- superjan 6y agoIt might depending on platform. On my windows laptop, I can videoconference without GPU accelleration. Windows 10 has an impressive software fallback for gpu rendering (WARP), they could be using that.
- gerdesj 6y agoThat does not happen, even with the beta grade Linux version on Arch (as I run it) You may have a rubbish internet connection. If you are using a VPN with a slow internet connection, investigate a split tunnel. Teams traffic involves only three IP ranges so it is easy to split out and route direct to shave a fair bit of latency. Other issues will require more investigation but they are local to you.
- antman 6y agoSame freezing problem, company issued laptop 100mbit internet connection. Same feedback from hundreds of people. Half a gigabyte RAM or more even when Teams inactive. Other softwares have solved this problem so I will agree with the opinion that Teams team should put their act together. I will postpone prioritizing Teams ips to the routers.
- h3cate 6y agoyou have a lot to learn about computers if you're still dishing out the "it works on my machine so it's not a problem" excuse
- danw1979 6y agothey gave a credible theory to back it up though.
- sroussey 6y agoIt’s difficult to fix issues on compromised machines, for example. Or buggy VPN. Etc. Sometimes it really is a specific person’s issue, and sometimes there are a lot of them so it can look like a vendor issue. Of course, sometimes it is a vendor issue. There is a percent range where it is difficult to differentiate. Made worse by a large user base.
- gerdesj 6y agoI'm only 50 and been messing around with them for about 40 years. My point was that even on a precariously supported platform (my Arch Linux computers), the software works fine - ie as proscribed. MS Teams is used by a vast number of people and has a habit of working OK for them.
- bobobob420 6y agoAgree if your computer resources are being utilized over 70 percent teams becomes a nightmare. They could have written it in c++ in the same amount of time and had that thing running smoothly.
- beams 6y agoRewriting it in C++ to magically solve problems. Good job, engineer.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago> Rewriting it in C++ to magically solve problems. Good job, engineer. Well it's a lot easier to make an app perform well in C++ than electron. They should at least have for the VS Code team to help. That's one of the best performing Electron apps, it's strange MS never adopted those practices company wide.
- sroussey 6y agoOr they did, and it has more to do with different things happening on the network layer of individual machines.
- dmix 6y agoSounds like a lot of shit rolling downhill.
- GekkePrutser 6y agoHmm when I compare the two in terms of CPU / Memory usage and speed, Teams is one of the worst performing electron apps on my system, and VS Code one of the best. I don't think this is just network related (and I have a 600/600 connection anyway). Either way, even if this was the reason it would prove that Electron is not a good fit for an app like this.
- bobobob420 6y agoThe issue with teams is performance. Teams is a relatively simple application. C++ is extremely common and well known, would have been a better tool for the job. That’s called engineering when you actually care about the quality of the product.
- RhodoYolo 6y agoFunny enough in 'founders at work' it sheds light on the early days of paypal. It seems to point towards one of the reasons Elon got fired as CEO of Paypal is because the broader team disagreed with Elon about whether to build around windows or linux and Elon argued that there was more tooling in windows at the time.
- mikea1 6y agoThat’s consistent with the biography by Ashlee Vance: Elon pushed for Windows and C++ because he believed it was a more mature ecosystem.
- x87678r 6y agoI worked on a big distributed system with C# and windows servers. Was rock solid I miss it so much. I'm not drowning in Java/Spring/Linux app its such a horrible mess, security is the worst nightmare but even stuff like NFS is regularly breaks. Windows was great.
- 1-6 6y agoWell, things have a tendency to come full-circle again. Maybe with the cloud offerings, we'll realize that open-source isn't so great and go back to more proprietary offerings.
- paulmd 6y agoC# is basically the same thing from a VM perspective, an interpreted bytecoded high-level language, but tied to windows. You can write architecture astronaut shit in C# just as much as Java. The nice thing about Java is the deployment and management tooling. It's cross-platform and mature. C# is not nearly as good in this respect, although with the open-source it is finally free to move with that.
- albru123 6y ago> C# is not nearly as good in this respect. How so, I had nothing but issues when trying to deploy cross-platform Java because of the Java ecosystem itself being bad compared to C# or Golang where you just compile stuff and run it.
- pjmlp 6y agoWith the right JDK you can do the same with Java as well.
- Hawxy 6y ago> C# is basically the same thing from a VM perspective, an interpreted bytecoded high-level language, but tied to windows. C#/.NET hasn't been tied to windows for a number of years now. .NET Core/.NET 5 is cross-platform and great to work with. All of our CI/CD runs on Linux agents too.
- manigandham 6y agoThis still holds for C# and the .NET ecosystem today, especially amongst SV startups. If only they knew how much faster and better they could be building instead of avoiding it for ideological reasons.
- eikenberry 6y agoExcept that those ideological reasons are more important than faster and better... even assuming that is true.
- manigandham 6y agoWhat reasons? Do you have an example? Ideological is usually the opposite of rational.
- Nullabillity 6y ago"I don't trust, based on their past behaviour, that these people will pick a path that is consistent with mine" is a perfectly rational reason based on ideology.
- manigandham 6y agoOk, so what path is interfering with the ability to build faster and better exactly? Looking at their current behavior from open-source to VSCode to .NET 5 shows that it's a more compelling choice today than ever before. This is actually rational.
- pjmlp 6y agoExcept those same startups are more than happy using FOSS tools paid with Facebook, Amazon and Google money. The three heroes of ethics, ideal working conditions and examples of behaviour towards the society in general.
- emilsedgh 6y agoWhat ideological reasons? Are you claiming SV startups use open source alternatives because of "free software" or what? The only reason most startups use open source ecosystems is economics.