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Roguelites force you to improve and meet the demands of the game in a way that few other games can boast. Most other difficult single-player games, you can get

Roguelites force you to improve and meet the demands of the game in a way that few other games can boast. Most other difficult single-player games, you can get by through attrition, forcing your way through a difficult section via a mountain of lost lives and increasingly precise muscle memory tailored to that exact scenario. With roguelites, you can't do that -- or at least, not nearly to the same degree. With the level layout and enemy setup changing every time you play, you have to think things through, and improve yourself at the system level, rather than brute force mastering one corridor at a time. In a way, it's not entirely unlike multiplayer games; you can never fully memorize what to do, as the details keep changing.

CJefferson 6y ago
I would say the problem is the exact opposite - most rogielikes (Hades included) are basically impossible the first time you play them, you need to grind a whole bunch of currency to get permanent buffs. I actually like rogue-likes, as long as they don't have the ability to buy permanent buffs, but that seems to be the current standard.
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  Permanent buffs, especially substantial ones, seem more like the exception than the rule to me. Nuclear Throne has no permanent buffs until you at least clear your first run, and even then it's fairly minor. Enter the Gungeon lets you unlock new guns to show up on future runs -- that kind of thing is very common, but ostensibly they're supposed to be sidegrades -- but I don't remember getting flatly stronger. And while I only played Slay the Spire once, I got a clear on that first try. That said, there are a shitton of roguelikes out there these days, and I've only sunk substantial time into a relative handful, so maybe I'm wrong.
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    Ehh, the average unlocked item in games like Gungeon might be "sidegrades" but your character's power level is generally driven not by the average item, but by the single best item you found. And for that reason, unlocking a small number of exceptionally good items does tend to make the game much, much easier. Gungeon has quite a few things to unlock that greatly trivialize the game, e.g. Clone.

CJefferson 6y ago

I would say the problem is the exact opposite - most rogielikes (Hades included) are basically impossible the first time you play them, you need to grind a whole bunch of currency to get permanent buffs. I actually like rogue-likes, as long as they don't have the ability to buy permanent buffs, but that seems to be the current standard.

TulliusCicero 6y ago
Permanent buffs, especially substantial ones, seem more like the exception than the rule to me. Nuclear Throne has no permanent buffs until you at least clear your first run, and even then it's fairly minor. Enter the Gungeon lets you unlock new guns to show up on future runs -- that kind of thing is very common, but ostensibly they're supposed to be sidegrades -- but I don't remember getting flatly stronger. And while I only played Slay the Spire once, I got a clear on that first try. That said, there are a shitton of roguelikes out there these days, and I've only sunk substantial time into a relative handful, so maybe I'm wrong.
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  Ehh, the average unlocked item in games like Gungeon might be "sidegrades" but your character's power level is generally driven not by the average item, but by the single best item you found. And for that reason, unlocking a small number of exceptionally good items does tend to make the game much, much easier. Gungeon has quite a few things to unlock that greatly trivialize the game, e.g. Clone.