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I spent some time learning the creative thinking process from an IDEO employee/teacher while in school. One of the early steps is defining your problem by inter

by soared 6y ago

I spent some time learning the creative thinking process from an IDEO employee/teacher while in school. One of the early steps is defining your problem by interviewing consumers, which seems like where the misstep occurred. Being an avid cyclist with nearly no friends who bike, I've seen that they are not intimidated by "technology". They are afraid of looking like an idiot. If they ride with me I look really cool with a slick bike and low profile gear, while they are riding a walmart bike in baggy shorts with a dumb helmet, while visible to hundreds of people in cars. IMO the solution is not a new bike - its better group rides. Most people don't show up to the gym and start working out on their own, they take a class at a gym with gear and other noobs. I believe the best way to get people off the couch and biking is letting them go to a gym, with a bunch of noobs, and ride bikes together. Don't spend $400+, spend $75/mo. (A bike is maybe ~70% of the total cost of bike gear). I have a ton of cool resources from IDEO (now quite a few years old) and the creative thinking/ideation process, I can post them here if desired. For those misunderstanding my example: The difference is looking like you know what you're doing, and looking like you have no idea what you're doing. Regardless of the situation (biking, at work, or talking to women at bars) not knowing what you're doing and having that be publicly visible can be a huge hurdle to overcome.

maxerickson 6y ago
No one who doesn't own it thinks that low profile bike clothing is cool. Or rather, only people that own low profile bike clothing think it is cool. https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2015/11/13 https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2015/11/13
- soared 6y ago
  My comment to a very similar reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25596163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25596163
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    I enjoy cycling quite a lot.
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
If you ever mentioned this idea to any friends, they are probably biking quite a lot but aren't going to tell you. And if it's the helmet, bike, and shorts that are so embarrassing (they are not): how is going to a gym going to change that?
marktangotango 6y ago
I worked at bike shops for several years in college. We'd sometimes get the customers who would ask, how is this bike worth $X more than a bike I can get at Walmart? All you'd have to do is get them on the bike for a test ride. The difference is night and day. Given that, I feel like the goal of the Coast project wasn't necessarily to increase ridership, but to increase profits margins with a clever doo-dad. There's always been a lot of hand wringing by cycling enthusiasts in the US about increasing ridership, and being more approachable, better group rides may be one way to do it. There are a lot of obstacles here; road conditions (potholes), hilly in a lot of areas (it does not take a steep or long grade to flummux a introductory or casual rider!), but at the end of the day, cycling is just dangerous. American car culture is not friendly to anything else being on the road (talk to motorcyclists for example!). When I think back on some of the close calls I had, and accidents my friends had simply riding around, I'm kind of amazed I was ever that fearless.
- jrockway 6y ago
  I too have had enough close calls to rethink the whole thing. One time I was riding on Second Avenue. The bike lane turned into a 30 foot deep sinkhole with a couple cones marking the hazard. By the time I noticed, there was a long flatbed truck in the lane next to me. I merged over and had what felt like an inch of space to ride in -- 30 foot drop to my death to the right, big unaware truck to the left. The truck moved over to the right for no good reason and the tires rubbed off most of the skin on my left arm. One more inch and my username would be talking_panckake. (Just kidding, I'd be dead!) Another time I was riding on First Avenue. First Avenue has one of those bike lanes that's next to the sidewalk, and parked cars separate you from traffic. Some idiot, and I don't use that term lightly, decided to walk their bike off the sidewalk right in front of me, and position it at a right angle to the traffic flow. I was going too fast to stop that quickly and plowed right into the bike. (The rider noticed me and jumped back onto the sidewalk, saving himself from any injury.) My main memory was flying through the air and seeing my bike flying right next to me. I landed on my arm like an idiot and my right shoulder popped out. I popped it back in and rode 40 more miles that day... but it wasn't pleasant. I now have the ability to dislocate my right shoulder on demand! I don't think those two events were what killed bike commuting for me, but I was pretty shy for a few months after each of those incidents. What killed it for me was the constant close calls that don't really make good stories (and a lack of shower facilities at my most recent workplace). I still bike early in the morning. Very few idiots out and I can go fast for a couple hours and then take the subway to work. But yeah. I consider myself a seasoned cycling veteran, and in the last 3 or 4 years it just got to be too much for me. I moved to New York City in 2012, and honestly, things were great back then. But over the years, the city just got more and more crowded with cars, and there is no room for bicyclists anymore. (When I visit places like Montreal, I feel great. I think it's just a NYC thing.)
tjr225 6y ago
There is a large trend growing in the cycling world that is focused on the non-competitive aspect of cycling. As someone who used to be a somewhat competitive cyclist I have fully adapted to this trend because it is probably the coolest and most wholesome trend I have ever experienced. Even the big manufacturers are trying to catch up. Bikes can get you to work, to the store, to a camp site, around the park, whatever. Cheaper, cleaner, and more fun than cars at the same time.
EpicEng 6y ago
>If they ride with me I look really cool with a slick bike and low profile gear No one aside from you and other people who wear that unnecessary gear think it looks cool. Sorry. I don't imagine this is why your friends won't ride with you.
- soared 6y ago
  You are misunderstanding my point and injecting your own dislike for bikers where it isn't relevant. The difference is looking like you know what you're doing, and looking like you have no idea what you're doing. Regardless of the situation (biking, at work, or talking to women at bars) not knowing what you're doing and having that be publicly visible can be a huge hurdle to overcome.
  - EpicEng 6y ago
    >You are misunderstanding my point and injecting your own dislike for bikers where it isn't relevant. Am I? You typed this, not me. >They are afraid of looking like an idiot. If they ride with me I look really cool with a slick bike and low profile gear, while they are riding a walmart bike in baggy shorts with a dumb helmet, while visible to hundreds of people in cars. How exactly did I misinterpret that? You think you look cool and knowledgeable and that's why no one wants to ride with you. You don't, and that's probably not why they won't ride with you. >The difference is looking like you know what you're doing, and looking like you have no idea what you're doing. People who spend gobs of money on all of that gear don't look like they know what they're doing; they look like middle aged men and women cosplaying people who knows what they're doing. It's unnecessary and nothing more than a fashion statement. I think it's you who misunderstands how most of the world views your spandex. And I have no "dislike for bikers"; I dislike the snotty attitude some of them have about their dumb, pointless, overpriced gear that, uh... makes them slightly faster while riding down Main street I guess? When I play baseball with my 7 year old I don't feel the urge to throw on cleats and eye black.
    - soared 6y ago
      I am sorry that the clothing cyclists wear illicits so much anger in you.
brnt 6y ago
Dutch person here. The thing you foreigners don't get is that cycling shouldn't be regarded as a sport. All your problems with cycling stem from that misconception.
- soared 6y ago
  In my opinion, Casual biking cannot exist when you have to tolerate being 12 inches from a 2 ton death machine going 45 MPH.
  - brudgers 6y ago
    Beside sport and casual cycling there is practical cycling. Functional use of bicycles as transport from A to B and back where B might be work or a shop. Though admittedly, the weather in most of the US is unsuitable much of the time and likewise the terrain. The Netherlands is a small locale where these are not factors.
  - brnt 6y ago
    I agree, I have lived abroad in such circumstances for a number of years. Local cyclists were hard to convince that they were not very good at advocating the bicycle as a mode of daily transport. Getting cars under control is certainly the first thing that must happen, but cyclists running red lights and being worried about their 'gear' are a nuisance everywhere. They are no more tolerated in the Netherlands than outside.
    - maccard 6y ago
      As a cyclist and driver in a city, cyclists running red lights is one of those things that people talk about like it's a massive problem. It's not cyclists blowing red lights at busy junctions, if they did that they would be killed here instantly. It's cyclists trying to go when there isn't any traffic going, or they're competing with pedestrians. Yeah you get the occasional asshat, but you get them in cars too, and they're way more dangerous there. The focus needs to be on getting cars under control, period.

by soared 6y ago

maxerickson 6y ago

No one who doesn't own it thinks that low profile bike clothing is cool. Or rather, only people that own low profile bike clothing think it is cool. https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2015/11/13 https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2015/11/13

soared 6y ago
My comment to a very similar reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25596163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25596163
- maxerickson 6y ago
  I enjoy cycling quite a lot.

IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago

If you ever mentioned this idea to any friends, they are probably biking quite a lot but aren't going to tell you. And if it's the helmet, bike, and shorts that are so embarrassing (they are not): how is going to a gym going to change that?

marktangotango 6y ago

I worked at bike shops for several years in college. We'd sometimes get the customers who would ask, how is this bike worth $X more than a bike I can get at Walmart? All you'd have to do is get them on the bike for a test ride. The difference is night and day. Given that, I feel like the goal of the Coast project wasn't necessarily to increase ridership, but to increase profits margins with a clever doo-dad. There's always been a lot of hand wringing by cycling enthusiasts in the US about increasing ridership, and being more approachable, better group rides may be one way to do it. There are a lot of obstacles here; road conditions (potholes), hilly in a lot of areas (it does not take a steep or long grade to flummux a introductory or casual rider!), but at the end of the day, cycling is just dangerous. American car culture is not friendly to anything else being on the road (talk to motorcyclists for example!). When I think back on some of the close calls I had, and accidents my friends had simply riding around, I'm kind of amazed I was ever that fearless.

jrockway 6y ago
I too have had enough close calls to rethink the whole thing. One time I was riding on Second Avenue. The bike lane turned into a 30 foot deep sinkhole with a couple cones marking the hazard. By the time I noticed, there was a long flatbed truck in the lane next to me. I merged over and had what felt like an inch of space to ride in -- 30 foot drop to my death to the right, big unaware truck to the left. The truck moved over to the right for no good reason and the tires rubbed off most of the skin on my left arm. One more inch and my username would be talking_panckake. (Just kidding, I'd be dead!) Another time I was riding on First Avenue. First Avenue has one of those bike lanes that's next to the sidewalk, and parked cars separate you from traffic. Some idiot, and I don't use that term lightly, decided to walk their bike off the sidewalk right in front of me, and position it at a right angle to the traffic flow. I was going too fast to stop that quickly and plowed right into the bike. (The rider noticed me and jumped back onto the sidewalk, saving himself from any injury.) My main memory was flying through the air and seeing my bike flying right next to me. I landed on my arm like an idiot and my right shoulder popped out. I popped it back in and rode 40 more miles that day... but it wasn't pleasant. I now have the ability to dislocate my right shoulder on demand! I don't think those two events were what killed bike commuting for me, but I was pretty shy for a few months after each of those incidents. What killed it for me was the constant close calls that don't really make good stories (and a lack of shower facilities at my most recent workplace). I still bike early in the morning. Very few idiots out and I can go fast for a couple hours and then take the subway to work. But yeah. I consider myself a seasoned cycling veteran, and in the last 3 or 4 years it just got to be too much for me. I moved to New York City in 2012, and honestly, things were great back then. But over the years, the city just got more and more crowded with cars, and there is no room for bicyclists anymore. (When I visit places like Montreal, I feel great. I think it's just a NYC thing.)

tjr225 6y ago

There is a large trend growing in the cycling world that is focused on the non-competitive aspect of cycling. As someone who used to be a somewhat competitive cyclist I have fully adapted to this trend because it is probably the coolest and most wholesome trend I have ever experienced. Even the big manufacturers are trying to catch up. Bikes can get you to work, to the store, to a camp site, around the park, whatever. Cheaper, cleaner, and more fun than cars at the same time.

EpicEng 6y ago

>If they ride with me I look really cool with a slick bike and low profile gear No one aside from you and other people who wear that unnecessary gear think it looks cool. Sorry. I don't imagine this is why your friends won't ride with you.

soared 6y ago
You are misunderstanding my point and injecting your own dislike for bikers where it isn't relevant. The difference is looking like you know what you're doing, and looking like you have no idea what you're doing. Regardless of the situation (biking, at work, or talking to women at bars) not knowing what you're doing and having that be publicly visible can be a huge hurdle to overcome.
- EpicEng 6y ago
  >You are misunderstanding my point and injecting your own dislike for bikers where it isn't relevant. Am I? You typed this, not me. >They are afraid of looking like an idiot. If they ride with me I look really cool with a slick bike and low profile gear, while they are riding a walmart bike in baggy shorts with a dumb helmet, while visible to hundreds of people in cars. How exactly did I misinterpret that? You think you look cool and knowledgeable and that's why no one wants to ride with you. You don't, and that's probably not why they won't ride with you. >The difference is looking like you know what you're doing, and looking like you have no idea what you're doing. People who spend gobs of money on all of that gear don't look like they know what they're doing; they look like middle aged men and women cosplaying people who knows what they're doing. It's unnecessary and nothing more than a fashion statement. I think it's you who misunderstands how most of the world views your spandex. And I have no "dislike for bikers"; I dislike the snotty attitude some of them have about their dumb, pointless, overpriced gear that, uh... makes them slightly faster while riding down Main street I guess? When I play baseball with my 7 year old I don't feel the urge to throw on cleats and eye black.
  - soared 6y ago
    I am sorry that the clothing cyclists wear illicits so much anger in you.

brnt 6y ago

Dutch person here. The thing you foreigners don't get is that cycling shouldn't be regarded as a sport. All your problems with cycling stem from that misconception.

soared 6y ago
In my opinion, Casual biking cannot exist when you have to tolerate being 12 inches from a 2 ton death machine going 45 MPH.
- brudgers 6y ago
  Beside sport and casual cycling there is practical cycling. Functional use of bicycles as transport from A to B and back where B might be work or a shop. Though admittedly, the weather in most of the US is unsuitable much of the time and likewise the terrain. The Netherlands is a small locale where these are not factors.
- brnt 6y ago
  I agree, I have lived abroad in such circumstances for a number of years. Local cyclists were hard to convince that they were not very good at advocating the bicycle as a mode of daily transport. Getting cars under control is certainly the first thing that must happen, but cyclists running red lights and being worried about their 'gear' are a nuisance everywhere. They are no more tolerated in the Netherlands than outside.
  - maccard 6y ago
    As a cyclist and driver in a city, cyclists running red lights is one of those things that people talk about like it's a massive problem. It's not cyclists blowing red lights at busy junctions, if they did that they would be killed here instantly. It's cyclists trying to go when there isn't any traffic going, or they're competing with pedestrians. Yeah you get the occasional asshat, but you get them in cars too, and they're way more dangerous there. The focus needs to be on getting cars under control, period.