4 ms·

Apple gets more focus because they are the richest and most dominant company in the world. They are one of the few who actually could make a difference if they

Apple gets more focus because they are the richest and most dominant company in the world. They are one of the few who actually could make a difference if they wanted to. They also deserve more scrutiny because they spare no opportunity to claim the moral high ground through over the top virtue signalling.

zepto 6y ago
Except that they do make more of a difference than anyone else, and people continue to vilify them.
- nescioquid 6y ago
  > and people continue to vilify them That's not very polite; it sure would hurt my feeling if I were Apple. But happily there will always be people to defend this poor little megacorp should anyone, anywhere have a criticism.
  - zepto 6y ago
    It’s not really about defending a poor ‘megacorp’. It’s about having a useful and informative conversation about how these things work. When we become obsessed with the idea that everything a corporation does must be evil, it just makes us unable to think clearly. If you have a country where labor violations are the norm, it’s reasonable to expect that they will occur. Nobody has a magic wand that will prevent that. How should a company respond when they do? Immediately cutting the contract is one option, which will immediately put a lot of people out of work, and may do nothing to change the practices of the supplier. It also may simply give the next supplier leverage. If there are only a few suppliers, there is only so many times you can simply fire them. On the other hand, giving them a chance to change, and only firing them when they don’t, is a pretty normal practice.
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      Because the corporation makes a lot of money and has a lot of power. Sure, we can drop the vilifying and the moralizing. But these criticisms are still valid even if one was to be less emotional about it. Maybe this story can be framed in terms of a substantiative discussion on the proper relationship between U.S. companies and international vendors wrt labor conditions. Dismissing criticisms out of hand is as unproductive to discussion as automatically attacking the megacorp.
      - zepto 6y ago
        Who is dismissing criticisms out of hand?
        zepto 6y ago
        Also - what valid claim is being made here with emotion attached?
    - nescioquid 6y ago
      > It’s about having a useful and informative conversation about how these things work. Looked to me more like you wanted to shut down conversation. One of us seems to have an attachment to Apple that might be making it hard to think clearly, especially when criticism threatens that attachment. Meeting the low bar of the law for corporations in this country hardly places a corporation beyond criticism. What do you really think the result would have been without the constant fear of blow-back? What sort of trust do you think I or anyone owes to this or any corporation?
      - zepto 6y ago
        “ Looked to me more like you wanted to shut down conversation.” How?
  - sunshinerag 6y ago
    oh my, cut the virtue singling crap. They didn't get to become a megacorp on any one's back. Apple still represent's its employees and they worked hard to get there when everyone was cheering Bill Gates and Microsoft.

zepto 6y ago

Except that they do make more of a difference than anyone else, and people continue to vilify them.

nescioquid 6y ago
> and people continue to vilify them That's not very polite; it sure would hurt my feeling if I were Apple. But happily there will always be people to defend this poor little megacorp should anyone, anywhere have a criticism.
- zepto 6y ago
  It’s not really about defending a poor ‘megacorp’. It’s about having a useful and informative conversation about how these things work. When we become obsessed with the idea that everything a corporation does must be evil, it just makes us unable to think clearly. If you have a country where labor violations are the norm, it’s reasonable to expect that they will occur. Nobody has a magic wand that will prevent that. How should a company respond when they do? Immediately cutting the contract is one option, which will immediately put a lot of people out of work, and may do nothing to change the practices of the supplier. It also may simply give the next supplier leverage. If there are only a few suppliers, there is only so many times you can simply fire them. On the other hand, giving them a chance to change, and only firing them when they don’t, is a pretty normal practice.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    Because the corporation makes a lot of money and has a lot of power. Sure, we can drop the vilifying and the moralizing. But these criticisms are still valid even if one was to be less emotional about it. Maybe this story can be framed in terms of a substantiative discussion on the proper relationship between U.S. companies and international vendors wrt labor conditions. Dismissing criticisms out of hand is as unproductive to discussion as automatically attacking the megacorp.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Who is dismissing criticisms out of hand?
      - zepto 6y ago
        Also - what valid claim is being made here with emotion attached?
  - nescioquid 6y ago
    > It’s about having a useful and informative conversation about how these things work. Looked to me more like you wanted to shut down conversation. One of us seems to have an attachment to Apple that might be making it hard to think clearly, especially when criticism threatens that attachment. Meeting the low bar of the law for corporations in this country hardly places a corporation beyond criticism. What do you really think the result would have been without the constant fear of blow-back? What sort of trust do you think I or anyone owes to this or any corporation?
    - zepto 6y ago
      “ Looked to me more like you wanted to shut down conversation.” How?
- sunshinerag 6y ago
  oh my, cut the virtue singling crap. They didn't get to become a megacorp on any one's back. Apple still represent's its employees and they worked hard to get there when everyone was cheering Bill Gates and Microsoft.