5 ms·

This is what I’ve always said. I was just looking for scholarships in computer science, and I was surprised at the amount of women only scholarships I found.

This is what I’ve always said. I was just looking for scholarships in computer science, and I was surprised at the amount of women only scholarships I found. Society in general has less sympathy for men, and this is a pretty hard truth i’ve discovered.

collegeburner 6y ago
I will second this. I was hunting for merit scholarships, as this has been a tough year and college is pricey, even with the scholarships I have. For existing college students, most of those I found were for women only, especially for CS. But I'm not eligible, because I was born a guy. fml. Edit: btw the thing that annoys me about this is that I already won some tough and prestigious merit scholarships so I actually would have a good shot at these and probably get one if I applied to several. So it's more direct here for me.
- morlockabove 6y ago
  At this point, everyone should just say they're a woman.
  - collegeburner 6y ago
    Lol, a buddy jokingly suggested that. But joking aside, if we took sex and race off documents, job apps, college apps, etc. it would really help.
    - astura 6y ago
      Sex and race are not on job applications in the US.
      - runarberg 6y ago
        If I remember correctly names on applications that are traditionally more likely to be given to a black person is still considered less qualified on an identical resume than a name that is traditionally given to a white person. I don’t know if sending photos with your resume is still practiced in the USA (I think it is illegal in the UK) but if that is still the case than gender and ethnicity are still very much on the average job application.
        afuchs 6y ago
        Yep: https://hbr.org/2020/03/research-to-reduce-gender-bias-anonymize-job-applications https://hbr.org/2020/03/research-to-reduce-gender-bias-anony... Evey beyond names people tend to assign class, gender, and race to surprisingly mundane things that are found on resumes.
        monoideism 6y ago
        That hasn't been shown in a study for over 2 decades. Every recent study (past ~decade) that I'm aware of has shown no effect. Here's an article that discusses one recent study: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-biz-20160503-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-... The problem with the original study was that it used names that denoted socio-economic status as much as race (ie, "Dahntay Smith" or "Shaniqua Thomas"). That's a problem, too, but I suspect a similar effect for professional job applicants can be shown using "lower" socio-economic status white names (ie, "Bobby Lee Jones" or "Tommy Ray Brown"). Regardless, I would be strongly in favor of anonymized job applications, since that would eliminate any suggestion of such bias in whichever direction.
        runarberg 6y ago
        Ok, that is good news. It has been a while since I read up on the literature. And it is always nice to see findings revised by better studies.
      - lallysingh 6y ago
        The names are. Take them off and watch response rates change.
        astura 6y ago
        At my job names (among other things like urls) are blanked out by HR. When I get a resume to review I don't know the name of the applicant. I assumed this was fairly typical. Either way I was responding to "if we took sex and race off... job apps... it would really help."
        xenocratus 6y ago
        Indeed: https://behaviouraleconomics.pmc.gov.au/projects/going-blind-see-more-clearly-unconscious-bias-australian-public-service-aps-shortlisting https://behaviouraleconomics.pmc.gov.au/projects/going-blind...
      - lqqq 6y ago
        Not explicitly. But your name, LinkedIn account, Github profile picture, clubs... carry those information.
      - Solvitieg 6y ago
        No, but there is a strong will to reach gender and race equity in tech. And I don't think this can be achieved by accident. There must be intentionality to achieve this. Just look at this NYT hit piece on Coinbase yesterday and all the data available from big tech like Google and Facebook: https://twitter.com/nathanielpopper/status/1344044909200695298 https://twitter.com/nathanielpopper/status/13440449092006952... I'm not endorsing it. I'm just noting that it's happening.
      - flyingfences 6y ago
        Oh yes they are. You can check "prefer not to say" but that's an answer in and of itself.
    - Udik 6y ago
      Yes, just go to the interview wearing a wig and a skirt. Then on your first day you can wear your normal stuff, and if anyone says anything, you can just say you transitioned, and you really hope there won't be any discrimination against that.
- whatshisface 6y ago
  Look on the "bright side," those programs contribute to workplace sexism that will "benefit" you in the future. /s
secondcoming 6y ago
Indeed, my workplace is part of an internship program and for the last two years all interns have been female, and deliberately so.
high_derivative 6y ago
At my company (FAANG), 2/3 of intern and entry level opportunities are given to women. Ironically virtually all of them come from the same few elite universities and were hardly held back by anyone, as far as I can tell. Some of them play this game very aggressively. Once they are there, immediately organize into diversity projects and groups to push for quotas in promotions, project leads, etc. Despite these fast-track opportunities, they fully believe they are continuously being held back, at every level, and everything will be interpreted that way. I think it will eventually break the org but I don't plan on staying.
- baskire 6y ago
  I’ve also seen that FANG is actively discriminating against white men. I was asked to throw out all white male and Asian male resumes for an internship programs relatively recently.
  - afuchs 6y ago
    If that is true and there isn't more to this story it is likely illegal if this was done in the US. That said, FAANG companies have provided countless textbook examples of what HR departments should not do in almost every imaginable situation.
    - baskire 6y ago
      It’s not illegal to discriminate by race for internships. I’d love to see the aclu sue FANG over their Diversity programs. I highly suspect they are illegal in one way shape or form.
      - afuchs 6y ago
        Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it depends on the details of how and why. A uniform decision regarding all interns across an entire company targeting specific racial charactaristics is very different from a policy that bases decisions on objective measurements done in good faith with intent to correct for some form of bias.
zdragnar 6y ago
Just wait until you need to get a divorce and have young children.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
iphorde 6y ago
It is either Women only, or offered to immigrants where I am located. It is absolutely sickening what they've done.

collegeburner 6y ago

I will second this. I was hunting for merit scholarships, as this has been a tough year and college is pricey, even with the scholarships I have. For existing college students, most of those I found were for women only, especially for CS. But I'm not eligible, because I was born a guy. fml. Edit: btw the thing that annoys me about this is that I already won some tough and prestigious merit scholarships so I actually would have a good shot at these and probably get one if I applied to several. So it's more direct here for me.

morlockabove 6y ago
At this point, everyone should just say they're a woman.
- collegeburner 6y ago
  Lol, a buddy jokingly suggested that. But joking aside, if we took sex and race off documents, job apps, college apps, etc. it would really help.
  - astura 6y ago
    Sex and race are not on job applications in the US.
    - runarberg 6y ago
      If I remember correctly names on applications that are traditionally more likely to be given to a black person is still considered less qualified on an identical resume than a name that is traditionally given to a white person. I don’t know if sending photos with your resume is still practiced in the USA (I think it is illegal in the UK) but if that is still the case than gender and ethnicity are still very much on the average job application.
      - afuchs 6y ago
        Yep: https://hbr.org/2020/03/research-to-reduce-gender-bias-anonymize-job-applications https://hbr.org/2020/03/research-to-reduce-gender-bias-anony... Evey beyond names people tend to assign class, gender, and race to surprisingly mundane things that are found on resumes.
      - monoideism 6y ago
        That hasn't been shown in a study for over 2 decades. Every recent study (past ~decade) that I'm aware of has shown no effect. Here's an article that discusses one recent study: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-biz-20160503-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-... The problem with the original study was that it used names that denoted socio-economic status as much as race (ie, "Dahntay Smith" or "Shaniqua Thomas"). That's a problem, too, but I suspect a similar effect for professional job applicants can be shown using "lower" socio-economic status white names (ie, "Bobby Lee Jones" or "Tommy Ray Brown"). Regardless, I would be strongly in favor of anonymized job applications, since that would eliminate any suggestion of such bias in whichever direction.
        runarberg 6y ago
        Ok, that is good news. It has been a while since I read up on the literature. And it is always nice to see findings revised by better studies.
    - lallysingh 6y ago
      The names are. Take them off and watch response rates change.
      - astura 6y ago
        At my job names (among other things like urls) are blanked out by HR. When I get a resume to review I don't know the name of the applicant. I assumed this was fairly typical. Either way I was responding to "if we took sex and race off... job apps... it would really help."
      - xenocratus 6y ago
        Indeed: https://behaviouraleconomics.pmc.gov.au/projects/going-blind-see-more-clearly-unconscious-bias-australian-public-service-aps-shortlisting https://behaviouraleconomics.pmc.gov.au/projects/going-blind...
    - lqqq 6y ago
      Not explicitly. But your name, LinkedIn account, Github profile picture, clubs... carry those information.
    - Solvitieg 6y ago
      No, but there is a strong will to reach gender and race equity in tech. And I don't think this can be achieved by accident. There must be intentionality to achieve this. Just look at this NYT hit piece on Coinbase yesterday and all the data available from big tech like Google and Facebook: https://twitter.com/nathanielpopper/status/1344044909200695298 https://twitter.com/nathanielpopper/status/13440449092006952... I'm not endorsing it. I'm just noting that it's happening.
    - flyingfences 6y ago
      Oh yes they are. You can check "prefer not to say" but that's an answer in and of itself.
  - Udik 6y ago
    Yes, just go to the interview wearing a wig and a skirt. Then on your first day you can wear your normal stuff, and if anyone says anything, you can just say you transitioned, and you really hope there won't be any discrimination against that.
whatshisface 6y ago
Look on the "bright side," those programs contribute to workplace sexism that will "benefit" you in the future. /s

secondcoming 6y ago

Indeed, my workplace is part of an internship program and for the last two years all interns have been female, and deliberately so.

high_derivative 6y ago

At my company (FAANG), 2/3 of intern and entry level opportunities are given to women. Ironically virtually all of them come from the same few elite universities and were hardly held back by anyone, as far as I can tell. Some of them play this game very aggressively. Once they are there, immediately organize into diversity projects and groups to push for quotas in promotions, project leads, etc. Despite these fast-track opportunities, they fully believe they are continuously being held back, at every level, and everything will be interpreted that way. I think it will eventually break the org but I don't plan on staying.

baskire 6y ago
I’ve also seen that FANG is actively discriminating against white men. I was asked to throw out all white male and Asian male resumes for an internship programs relatively recently.
- afuchs 6y ago
  If that is true and there isn't more to this story it is likely illegal if this was done in the US. That said, FAANG companies have provided countless textbook examples of what HR departments should not do in almost every imaginable situation.
  - baskire 6y ago
    It’s not illegal to discriminate by race for internships. I’d love to see the aclu sue FANG over their Diversity programs. I highly suspect they are illegal in one way shape or form.
    - afuchs 6y ago
      Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it depends on the details of how and why. A uniform decision regarding all interns across an entire company targeting specific racial charactaristics is very different from a policy that bases decisions on objective measurements done in good faith with intent to correct for some form of bias.

zdragnar 6y ago

Just wait until you need to get a divorce and have young children.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

iphorde 6y ago

It is either Women only, or offered to immigrants where I am located. It is absolutely sickening what they've done.