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This is what's dangerous about affirmative action type programs. They're discrimination going in the other direction with the objective of equal outcomes, not e
by eloff 6y ago
This is what's dangerous about affirmative action type programs. They're discrimination going in the other direction with the objective of equal outcomes, not equal opportunity. The ultimate equal outcome is communism - everyone ends up equally poor. That doesn't seem like the right direction.
On the other hand how do you get more girls into STEM without programs like this? Maybe it's the best of bad options.
- aisofteng 6y agoWhy is “get more women into STEM” a worthy goal in and of itself?
- whatshisface 6y agoWell, it depends on whether women stay out of STEM because they don't care about programming, or whether they stay out of STEM because they're worried about being alone in a toxic environment. Ideally a diversity program would not influence group 1 while solving the problem for group 2.
- aisofteng 6y agoThat’s a different problem. “Fix toxic environments that keep certain types of people out of an honest line of work” is a good problem to solve. That is not the same as “let’s increase the number of people of a certain demographic within an industry”, in and of itself, taken entirely on its own.
- eloff 6y agoIf you phrase the problem like that, there is no problem. Group 1 is tiny compared to group 2. I think addressing group 2 is a desirable and valid goal. Societal gender roles say nurses and teachers are women's work and STEM is man's work. That's the thing one would need to address, and at a young age. It's not entirely clear how one can do that. One "only" has to challenge the societal norms that define gender roles themselves. Not an easy problem.
- whatshisface 6y ago>Group 1 is tiny compared to group 2. That is in my opinion an unjustified assumption. Huge numbers of men and women are uninterested in programming. In fact, virtually everyone I know of either gender is uninterested in programming. The number of people who don't program because they're not interested anecdotally dwarfs the number of people who don't program for any other reason.
- eloff 6y agoI got the two groups mixed up. Just swap 1 for 2 in my comment, which I can't edit anymore. I fully agree with you.