4 ms·

> "boys only" program, Even the "boy scouts" are just the scouts now: https://www.scouting.org/ https://www.scouting.org/

mhh__ 6y ago
Scout groups are mixed all over the world, it really doesn't make much difference - the only thing I noticed moving from a mixed one to an older all-boys one is that the boys one was much much more violent but that was mostly due to the leaders not stopping it.
- collegeburner 6y ago
  I got out just before the change and am hearing some pretty dopey stuff from buddies still in the program. Like they can't go pee behind a tree any more, can't swim with shirts off. Trust me, dynamics change when girls are around. There was a mixed program already, btw, called Venturing. I'll add that one of the best things about Boy Scouts was that we could do stuff that was dangerous, but not too dangerous. We didn't have any moms come along either, and I think that helped. Dads would stop us from doing something truly stupid (like permanent injury type stupid), but not something dumb that would bruise us and teach us a lesson. It also allowed us to do lots more fun stuff. These days, tree forts are a no-no, apparently. Some guys from my old troop were building one at a mixed event recently. Some girls from another troop came over and said it wasn't safe, then got some karen from their troop to come yell at the boys. Oh, and and apparently it's no longer okay to climb above chest height these days, because it's "not safe". I'm way too young to be saying, "Back when I was young, we did $UNSAFE_THING all the time! We liked it, and never got hurt." Or at least, I thought I was.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    I cannot relate to anything you've said and I spent I think 10 years in a mixed one
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  That's because males naturally use aggression/assertiveness to establish social hierarchy. That's the reason for having all-boys groups for youth, it gives them a space to work that out in a controlled way and learn how to channel their energy and aggression in positive directions.
core-questions 6y ago
There is a strange double standard in our society which posits that it is totally reasonable for women, people of color, people of different sexual orientations, etc. to all deserve their own 'safe spaces' to be around people of their intersectional group only; but the moment that males want this, or white people, or straight people, it's exclusionary and offensive. Nobody can defend this effectively without resorting to rhetoric that essentially just attacks people in the latter groups for things that are not their fault individually, and the entire mechanism that works to prevent them from having their own spaces seems fundamentally vengeful. There is very much a need for boys to have a space to be boys: where they can let their boisterousness out, where they can act a little crazy, or just act closer to their true selves etc. without having to worry about how they're perceived by the girls. As soon as puberty kicks in, all co-ed events are affected by sexual dynamics; it's been a standard in every human society to provide plenty of contexts for boys where that is removed from the mix as much as possible in order to get better / different behaviour from the young cadre.
- pa7ch 6y ago
  IDK I'd lean more towards mixing everyone as much as possible. All people should learn to handle being around diverse groups of people early and learn to handle themselves and respect others.
  - zarkov99 6y ago
    I actually think we need both. Boys need a place to be boys by themselves and girls need the same. Nothing wrong with mixing it up, but you also need the opposite.
- zarkov99 6y ago
  Of course. This is obvious to anyone who has had kids of both genders. Boys and girls care about different things, play differently, react to different kinds of encouragement. And we need our boys to be the best they can be at whatever they genuinely care about, in the way they care about it, just as much as we need the same for our girls. We are in for deep, deep trouble as a society if we loose the masculine drive.
nicky0 6y ago
Just FWIW, the Scout Association in the UK was renamed from "Boy Scouts Association" 1967 and began to admit girls in 1976.

mhh__ 6y ago

Scout groups are mixed all over the world, it really doesn't make much difference - the only thing I noticed moving from a mixed one to an older all-boys one is that the boys one was much much more violent but that was mostly due to the leaders not stopping it.

collegeburner 6y ago
I got out just before the change and am hearing some pretty dopey stuff from buddies still in the program. Like they can't go pee behind a tree any more, can't swim with shirts off. Trust me, dynamics change when girls are around. There was a mixed program already, btw, called Venturing. I'll add that one of the best things about Boy Scouts was that we could do stuff that was dangerous, but not too dangerous. We didn't have any moms come along either, and I think that helped. Dads would stop us from doing something truly stupid (like permanent injury type stupid), but not something dumb that would bruise us and teach us a lesson. It also allowed us to do lots more fun stuff. These days, tree forts are a no-no, apparently. Some guys from my old troop were building one at a mixed event recently. Some girls from another troop came over and said it wasn't safe, then got some karen from their troop to come yell at the boys. Oh, and and apparently it's no longer okay to climb above chest height these days, because it's "not safe". I'm way too young to be saying, "Back when I was young, we did $UNSAFE_THING all the time! We liked it, and never got hurt." Or at least, I thought I was.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  I cannot relate to anything you've said and I spent I think 10 years in a mixed one
throwaway201103 6y ago
That's because males naturally use aggression/assertiveness to establish social hierarchy. That's the reason for having all-boys groups for youth, it gives them a space to work that out in a controlled way and learn how to channel their energy and aggression in positive directions.

core-questions 6y ago

There is a strange double standard in our society which posits that it is totally reasonable for women, people of color, people of different sexual orientations, etc. to all deserve their own 'safe spaces' to be around people of their intersectional group only; but the moment that males want this, or white people, or straight people, it's exclusionary and offensive. Nobody can defend this effectively without resorting to rhetoric that essentially just attacks people in the latter groups for things that are not their fault individually, and the entire mechanism that works to prevent them from having their own spaces seems fundamentally vengeful. There is very much a need for boys to have a space to be boys: where they can let their boisterousness out, where they can act a little crazy, or just act closer to their true selves etc. without having to worry about how they're perceived by the girls. As soon as puberty kicks in, all co-ed events are affected by sexual dynamics; it's been a standard in every human society to provide plenty of contexts for boys where that is removed from the mix as much as possible in order to get better / different behaviour from the young cadre.

pa7ch 6y ago
IDK I'd lean more towards mixing everyone as much as possible. All people should learn to handle being around diverse groups of people early and learn to handle themselves and respect others.
- zarkov99 6y ago
  I actually think we need both. Boys need a place to be boys by themselves and girls need the same. Nothing wrong with mixing it up, but you also need the opposite.
zarkov99 6y ago
Of course. This is obvious to anyone who has had kids of both genders. Boys and girls care about different things, play differently, react to different kinds of encouragement. And we need our boys to be the best they can be at whatever they genuinely care about, in the way they care about it, just as much as we need the same for our girls. We are in for deep, deep trouble as a society if we loose the masculine drive.

nicky0 6y ago

Just FWIW, the Scout Association in the UK was renamed from "Boy Scouts Association" 1967 and began to admit girls in 1976.