5 ms·

I would argue the opposite: SV is a monoculture of nerds obsessed with computers, science, and grand ideas of changing the world through tiny companies. Everyon

by ipnon 6y ago

I would argue the opposite: SV is a monoculture of nerds obsessed with computers, science, and grand ideas of changing the world through tiny companies. Everyone around the world knows it. So all of these kinds of people flock to the Bay in droves, and drive all of the locals mad in the process, but eventually unicorns and impossible fortunes start oozing out of the cracks. And how can we be sure SV is a monoculture? Because in San Francisco, and now Austin, residents are complaining loudly about the blight of uniform techies with nothing to offer the community at large but glass skyscrapers and hunched backs. Case closed!

renewiltord 6y ago
The thing about this is that there are mops and geeks. The geeks just do the thing that they think is cool. The mops are there because the geeks are there. Since the geeks just do cool things, they have no trouble finding each other and doing cool things. It's the mops who have trouble. They're always like "X place used to be cool. There were all these people who did Y here". Well, those people are elsewhere and you don't know it because you were never one of them. You were a groupie. So the mops always get annoyed at some point not because some lower class of mop arrived but because there is only so many of them that can exist without ruining their thing. So, usually it's earlier groupies complaining about later groupies. "Man, Oakland used to be full of artists" "Oh yeah? What kind of art did you make?" "Oh not me. I studied chemical engineering. But there were all these artists back then." Riiiiight
- throw0101a 6y ago
  MOP = member of public. See essay "Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution": > The new scene draws fanatics. Fanatics don’t create, but they contribute energy (time, money, adulation, organization, analysis) to support the creators. > Creators and fanatics are both geeks.2 They totally love the New Thing, they’re fascinated with all its esoteric ins and outs, and they spend all available time either doing it or talking about it. > If the scene is sufficiently geeky, it remains a strictly geek thing; a weird hobby, not a subculture. > If the scene is unusually exciting, and the New Thing can be appreciated without having to get utterly geeky about details, it draws mops.3 Mops are fans, but not rabid fans like the fanatics. They show up to have a good time, and contribute as little as they reasonably can in exchange. * https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths * 2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21963626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21963626 * 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17433487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17433487 * 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9632751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9632751
- asdffdsa 6y ago
  I'd argue that there's culture and there's vultures. In any place, a community of people create a unique culture. Geeks create most of the artifacts & traditions of that culture, but the entire community (either passively or actively) contributes, supports, and adds to it. When that culture blows up, the vultures move there because they find value to exploit in that culture, while simultaneously supplanting/destroying/building over that culture. In your example, maybe the local ("earlier groupie") who studied chemical engineering knows the artists, supports their shows, smokes with them, shares his or her life with them, and has the culture ingrained in them even if that person isn't directly an artist or geek. Continuing the example, contrast this with a "later groupie" who would move to said location. This person might move into a new highrise development that used to be the warehouse where aforementioned artist & chemical engineer would kick it on weekends. The vulture will also support noise ordinance laws that would kill the informal events/performances of the culture that said chemical engineer used to attend, and where said artist would perform his or her art when that person was still 'underground'.
- hndnbbe83 6y ago
  This is the type of rant that only a techie dork could right. It smacks of everything that Bay Area locals hate about tech workers. Reductionist / solipistic world view? Check. Smug sense of entitlement? Check. Total lack of self awareness? Check. Was Sonny Barger a geek? How about Huey Netwon and Bobby Seale? Shrimp Boy? John Beam? Mickey Moe? Marshawn Lynch? Chauncey Bailey? John Burris? The Riders? Did these people emerge out of nowhere? No! They were all members of the community going about their daily lives like everybody else. The culture and character of a community is created and sustained by the totality of body politic. Certain products of those communities rise to prominence. When enough of the body politic is displaced fast enough, the character of the community changes. The people who remain bear forward the collective memory and their particular piece of the culture. Fyi, the artists were the first wave of the invasion. They were generally much cooler than the subsequent waves of colonizers.
clomond 6y ago
Why I think you are both right: - what you describe about SV isn’t as much a culture, as it is psychographic homogeneity that is in its own way unifying [1] - but about how “weird” as a culture can be good and important, I see that as the existence and acceptance of various sub and counter cultures, leading to an air of vibrancy, excitement, and “cool“. [1] where people view the world the same way and have similar values and aspirations https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychographics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychographics
balfirevic 6y ago
> SV is a monoculture of nerds obsessed with computers, science, and grand ideas of changing the world through tiny companies. I've never been to SV, but when you put it like that - it sounds pretty damn awesome.
- ipnon 6y ago
  Highly recommend a visit at least once in the near future. It's like Hacker News but you can't logout.
  - weston 6y ago
    Actual lol at that description! Probably the most accurate description of the valley I've ever read.
lyjackal 6y ago
San Francisco certainly wasn't always this way. Seems like GP is expressing concern that the corporate culture will wash away the weird/counter culture in Austin as well.

by ipnon 6y ago

renewiltord 6y ago

The thing about this is that there are mops and geeks. The geeks just do the thing that they think is cool. The mops are there because the geeks are there. Since the geeks just do cool things, they have no trouble finding each other and doing cool things. It's the mops who have trouble. They're always like "X place used to be cool. There were all these people who did Y here". Well, those people are elsewhere and you don't know it because you were never one of them. You were a groupie. So the mops always get annoyed at some point not because some lower class of mop arrived but because there is only so many of them that can exist without ruining their thing. So, usually it's earlier groupies complaining about later groupies. "Man, Oakland used to be full of artists" "Oh yeah? What kind of art did you make?" "Oh not me. I studied chemical engineering. But there were all these artists back then." Riiiiight

throw0101a 6y ago
MOP = member of public. See essay "Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution": > The new scene draws fanatics. Fanatics don’t create, but they contribute energy (time, money, adulation, organization, analysis) to support the creators. > Creators and fanatics are both geeks.2 They totally love the New Thing, they’re fascinated with all its esoteric ins and outs, and they spend all available time either doing it or talking about it. > If the scene is sufficiently geeky, it remains a strictly geek thing; a weird hobby, not a subculture. > If the scene is unusually exciting, and the New Thing can be appreciated without having to get utterly geeky about details, it draws mops.3 Mops are fans, but not rabid fans like the fanatics. They show up to have a good time, and contribute as little as they reasonably can in exchange. * https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths * 2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21963626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21963626 * 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17433487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17433487 * 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9632751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9632751
asdffdsa 6y ago
I'd argue that there's culture and there's vultures. In any place, a community of people create a unique culture. Geeks create most of the artifacts & traditions of that culture, but the entire community (either passively or actively) contributes, supports, and adds to it. When that culture blows up, the vultures move there because they find value to exploit in that culture, while simultaneously supplanting/destroying/building over that culture. In your example, maybe the local ("earlier groupie") who studied chemical engineering knows the artists, supports their shows, smokes with them, shares his or her life with them, and has the culture ingrained in them even if that person isn't directly an artist or geek. Continuing the example, contrast this with a "later groupie" who would move to said location. This person might move into a new highrise development that used to be the warehouse where aforementioned artist & chemical engineer would kick it on weekends. The vulture will also support noise ordinance laws that would kill the informal events/performances of the culture that said chemical engineer used to attend, and where said artist would perform his or her art when that person was still 'underground'.
hndnbbe83 6y ago
This is the type of rant that only a techie dork could right. It smacks of everything that Bay Area locals hate about tech workers. Reductionist / solipistic world view? Check. Smug sense of entitlement? Check. Total lack of self awareness? Check. Was Sonny Barger a geek? How about Huey Netwon and Bobby Seale? Shrimp Boy? John Beam? Mickey Moe? Marshawn Lynch? Chauncey Bailey? John Burris? The Riders? Did these people emerge out of nowhere? No! They were all members of the community going about their daily lives like everybody else. The culture and character of a community is created and sustained by the totality of body politic. Certain products of those communities rise to prominence. When enough of the body politic is displaced fast enough, the character of the community changes. The people who remain bear forward the collective memory and their particular piece of the culture. Fyi, the artists were the first wave of the invasion. They were generally much cooler than the subsequent waves of colonizers.

clomond 6y ago

Why I think you are both right: - what you describe about SV isn’t as much a culture, as it is psychographic homogeneity that is in its own way unifying [1] - but about how “weird” as a culture can be good and important, I see that as the existence and acceptance of various sub and counter cultures, leading to an air of vibrancy, excitement, and “cool“. [1] where people view the world the same way and have similar values and aspirations https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychographics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychographics

balfirevic 6y ago

> SV is a monoculture of nerds obsessed with computers, science, and grand ideas of changing the world through tiny companies. I've never been to SV, but when you put it like that - it sounds pretty damn awesome.

ipnon 6y ago
Highly recommend a visit at least once in the near future. It's like Hacker News but you can't logout.
- weston 6y ago
  Actual lol at that description! Probably the most accurate description of the valley I've ever read.

lyjackal 6y ago

San Francisco certainly wasn't always this way. Seems like GP is expressing concern that the corporate culture will wash away the weird/counter culture in Austin as well.