4 ms·

I got my current job when I got a good offer to relocate. When I eventually leave, I will either return home or move to the bay area. One of the reasons I wou

by Mc91 6y ago

I got my current job when I got a good offer to relocate. When I eventually leave, I will either return home or move to the bay area. One of the reasons I would move out to the bay area would be the better noncompete and IP assignment legalities. I would like to code my own stuff at night or on weekends without worrying as much about all of this.

jofer 6y ago
CA's restrictions on what IP assignment agreements can claim is a _huge_ win for employees. I _really_ wish we had similar legislation here in TX. I think that's a much more important issue than non-competes, personally.
kjksf 6y ago
Non competes are a different thing than IP assignment. Non competes prevent an employer to forbid you to work for competitor after you leave (or they fire you). Non competes are non enforceable in CA. IP assignments (i.e. "what you do belong to us") is very much enforceable and very common. How it's enforced depends on the company, but by default the employer can claim ownership if you do your work on their time or using their resources (e.g. on a company's laptop). And they can drag you through courts even if it's all your time and your resources. If you work for Apple, you better not do any non-Apple work. At Google you can do open source work but you have to get a permission. So as far as IP assignment, CA is no different than TX.
- Mc91 6y ago
  I thought California had better IP assignment laws than states like Texas ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208819 ), but it is not something I know about in full detail. I know California can can claim ownership if you do work on their time or using their resources. In other states the scope seems even wider. I should probably look into it more.
- sxp 6y ago
  California law has special protections that help people who create a startup in their garage in the evenings while working at a company in the daytime: https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/lab/division-3/2870-2872/2870/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/lab/division-3/... As long as they don't use the employer's equipment nor work that they do for the employer or compete with the employer, they can own their own work. This is one of the key legal reasons CA spawns so many startups.
- jjav 6y ago
  > IP assignments (i.e. "what you do belong to us") is very much enforceable and very common. Not true. By law, the work you create in CA on your own time on your own equipment cannot be claimed by the employer. That's part of what creates Silicon Valley: you moonlight on your startup while working full time until you're ready to take off. The text from this section is always present in any CA employment contract: https://california.public.law/codes/ca_lab_code_section_2870 https://california.public.law/codes/ca_lab_code_section_2870 Now, sure, there is the gray area introduced by clause a.1. "relate" but as long as you can steer clear of that the law is quite straightforward. Apple may have tons of lawyers and AFAIK is not a very employee-friendly place, but they shouldn't be above the law.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    That "relate" clause can be a pretty major deal breaker. Companies like Apple have their fingers in a lot of pies, and a lot of their projects are secret even to employees If you just start working on a side project without running it past your employer, you could be in violation and not even know it

by Mc91 6y ago

jofer 6y ago

CA's restrictions on what IP assignment agreements can claim is a _huge_ win for employees. I _really_ wish we had similar legislation here in TX. I think that's a much more important issue than non-competes, personally.

kjksf 6y ago

Non competes are a different thing than IP assignment. Non competes prevent an employer to forbid you to work for competitor after you leave (or they fire you). Non competes are non enforceable in CA. IP assignments (i.e. "what you do belong to us") is very much enforceable and very common. How it's enforced depends on the company, but by default the employer can claim ownership if you do your work on their time or using their resources (e.g. on a company's laptop). And they can drag you through courts even if it's all your time and your resources. If you work for Apple, you better not do any non-Apple work. At Google you can do open source work but you have to get a permission. So as far as IP assignment, CA is no different than TX.

Mc91 6y ago
I thought California had better IP assignment laws than states like Texas ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208819 ), but it is not something I know about in full detail. I know California can can claim ownership if you do work on their time or using their resources. In other states the scope seems even wider. I should probably look into it more.
sxp 6y ago
California law has special protections that help people who create a startup in their garage in the evenings while working at a company in the daytime: https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/lab/division-3/2870-2872/2870/ https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2011/lab/division-3/... As long as they don't use the employer's equipment nor work that they do for the employer or compete with the employer, they can own their own work. This is one of the key legal reasons CA spawns so many startups.
jjav 6y ago
> IP assignments (i.e. "what you do belong to us") is very much enforceable and very common. Not true. By law, the work you create in CA on your own time on your own equipment cannot be claimed by the employer. That's part of what creates Silicon Valley: you moonlight on your startup while working full time until you're ready to take off. The text from this section is always present in any CA employment contract: https://california.public.law/codes/ca_lab_code_section_2870 https://california.public.law/codes/ca_lab_code_section_2870 Now, sure, there is the gray area introduced by clause a.1. "relate" but as long as you can steer clear of that the law is quite straightforward. Apple may have tons of lawyers and AFAIK is not a very employee-friendly place, but they shouldn't be above the law.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  That "relate" clause can be a pretty major deal breaker. Companies like Apple have their fingers in a lot of pies, and a lot of their projects are secret even to employees If you just start working on a side project without running it past your employer, you could be in violation and not even know it