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I don't think that being frugal has ever been about going cheap. Frugality is not about consuming but investing in your life: that often contradicts with cheap

by yason 15y ago

I don't think that being frugal has ever been about going cheap. Frugality is not about consuming but investing in your life: that often contradicts with cheap. Frugality is about not buying things you don't need but buying things you can't live without. A frugal person will typically invest in quality because he knows he'll be using the item for years and doesn't want to replace it every few. I wouldn't consider myself extremely frugal but my favorite shoes I'm wearing today I bought in the year 2000. They feel great, they have never had to been repaired, they resist water enough, the leather is in good condition and actually they didn't cost much (guesstimate in today's currency: 100-150€). But I have this mindset that I don't need new shoes just for the sake of new shoes. That's frugality. I will wear mine for another ten years if only they'll hold together and still look tidy enough to walk into the public. (They look used of course, but still tidy.) If they don't, I'll have to buy a replacement pair. Frugality is also sometimes buying the cheapest thing. Buying a cheap electric drill is frugal if you only drill a few times a year, which makes the drill last for decades. Buying the best that money can buy would be frugal if you're a carpenter or do renovations every week and need a professional grade durability; however, if you're not doing that you're not frugal but rather just going on the hifi tangent and in reality you want to buy the expensive model because of your ego only. Frugality also brings focus to—I was going to say consumption but I'll say personal investment instead. It makes sense to buy quality items for what you love: if you love riding a bike then investing in a quality bike is frugal because it saves you and the environment from unneeded consumption and hair-pulling. But you can't love everything either. You can't have the top of the line computer, screen, home theater, coffee grinder, washing machine, mattress, toilet seat, motorcycle, car, bike, camera, video camera, clothes, shoes, accessories and consider yourself frugal. You can have one or two because you simply can't be spending all of your time only grinding coffee, coding, washing laundry, riding a motorbike, and shooting photos. And yes, being frugal inevitably does make me look like a loser in the eyes of some people. But then what? Other people's opinions about me are none of my business anyway.

geekzgalore 15y ago
I agree. Cheapskate != frugal.
danssig 15y ago
I think the disconnect here is your use of the term frugal. In the US (at least the south) every time I've ever heard anyone say they were frugal they meant they were cheap. They would buy the cheapest possible thing and use it well past the point it was presentable. I've even heard such people claim the cheaper thing must be better quality because it's cheaper. Sadly, I'm not even exaggerating.
- wyclif 15y ago
  I'm from the NE, and the word "frugal" does not mean the same thing here as it does in the South. As someone above said about New England, frugal is an art form here. Frugal is spending more on Calphalon cookware because you don't waste a ton of money eating out 3x a week, and want cooking gear that lasts a lifetime so you don't have to spend more money re-buying cheap stuff later.
  - danssig 15y ago
    Fair enough. Where I'm from people say "frugal" because they don't want to say "cheap" even though that would be the truth.
    - wyclif 15y ago
      Sure, I've heard people use it this way down South, it's part of the politeness culture there, where using "cheap" would be perceived as insulting or pejorative.
  - josefresco 15y ago
    I can concur, being from New England myself frugal is looked at as a desirable trait. In fact, I'd say its synonymous with the term "thrifty" which is another positive association for us.
- chollida1 15y ago
  > In the US (at least the south) every time I've ever heard anyone say they were frugal they meant they were cheap. Interesting. In Canada, I've lived in Ontario, Alberta and BC. In each province frugal means someone who spends money wisely. ie buying a Toyota Camry instead of a BMW
Shant 15y ago
Agreed. Another good way of looking at it is that managing your spending should be like managing any other finite resource, like time. No one really thinks it makes sense to save your time by not spending time on anything at all. You want to be frugal with your time -- you save it in order to splurge on the things that matter and will give you the most benefit/productivity. I think it's the same with money -- cheapness is a mentally lazy way to save money, frugality is a smarter way. As a side note, I've never understood the obsession with making food purchases your main source of money-saving. The idea of "cheap calories" seems so misguided when you take into account that, down the line, those diabetes and heart disease treatments will be anything but cheap. Not to mention what you lose in productivity with the mental and physical sluggishness that comes from eating crappy, fake food. I'm all for ramen-profitable, but I'll pass on the ramen. If only "3 year old shoes and grass-fed steak profitable" had a better ring to it.
- eru 15y ago
  Just make it oats-profitable. Oats are still cheap, but not as crappy as Ramen. Though I do like to splurge on food.
jasonkester 15y ago
Indeed, and I think that's what the author was saying too. One example: Craftsman Hand Tools. They have a lifetime guarantee, so provided you don't lose them, you're done buying screwdrivers and wrenches for life. True story. I walked into Sears with a broken socket wrench. Sears guy: "Wow. What happened to that?" Me: "Well, I had a bolt that really didn't want to come loose, so I had a six foot cheater bar and I was bouncing my whole weight on it when suddenly it exploded." Sears guy: "Yeah, that would do it. Let me see what I can do..." [check in the back] "Well, we don't have that model in stock, so here's a new one from our Pro line. It's a bit more expensive, but it's probably a bit stronger too. Good luck with that bolt." I've had that same conversation on 3 different occasions, each with ludicrously mis-used tools broken entirely through my foolishness. All replaced for free with a smile.
- ido 15y ago
  I've had that same conversation on 3 different occasions, each with ludicrously mis-used tools broken entirely through my foolishness. All replaced for free with a smile. Let me guess - you live in the US. Good luck getting the same result in Europe ;)
  - jasonkester 15y ago
    Uh, sure. You're right. Sears are thin on the ground over here. In case I wasn't clear, all the abovementioned conversations happened at Sears department store, the sole distributor of Craftsman hand tools. They have an explicit policy of replacing any broken tool, regardless of how you broke it. So if you rock up with the snapped-off handle of one of those tiny little flathead screwdrivers (complete with a little clip so that you can keep it in your shirt pocket), and a story about how you were trying to pry off a rusted-on cylinder head using it and a large hammer, they'll replace it. (as I have personally verified) And yeah, you're right about the European version of customer service (at least the English variant). Since moving here, I've never once come across a merchant who was familiar with the concept of "the customer is always right". Rather, "It's my shop, so by definition I'm right. And why are there so many customers in here, anyway? I think I'll start closing at 5:30 so I don't have to deal with them."
eru 15y ago
> If they don't, I'll have to buy a replacement pair. You can also get them repaired.
jonnathanson 15y ago
Yes. There are people who take consumption too far, and there are people who take frugality to the point of miserliness. I don't think it's fair to peg the definition of frugality to either of these extremes. Furthermore, I take issue with the author's (or anyone's) attempts to stake out objective ground on what does or does not constitute "the right place" to spend money. Everyone lives differently. "The right places" are subjective. If I derive a ton of personal utility and happiness from splurging on something someone else considers worthless, while saving on something someone else considers vital, then that's my prerogative. So long as my overall strategy is sound, and I'm living within or under my means, I'm fine with my choices.

by yason 15y ago

geekzgalore 15y ago

I agree. Cheapskate != frugal.

danssig 15y ago

I think the disconnect here is your use of the term frugal. In the US (at least the south) every time I've ever heard anyone say they were frugal they meant they were cheap. They would buy the cheapest possible thing and use it well past the point it was presentable. I've even heard such people claim the cheaper thing must be better quality because it's cheaper. Sadly, I'm not even exaggerating.

wyclif 15y ago
I'm from the NE, and the word "frugal" does not mean the same thing here as it does in the South. As someone above said about New England, frugal is an art form here. Frugal is spending more on Calphalon cookware because you don't waste a ton of money eating out 3x a week, and want cooking gear that lasts a lifetime so you don't have to spend more money re-buying cheap stuff later.
- danssig 15y ago
  Fair enough. Where I'm from people say "frugal" because they don't want to say "cheap" even though that would be the truth.
  - wyclif 15y ago
    Sure, I've heard people use it this way down South, it's part of the politeness culture there, where using "cheap" would be perceived as insulting or pejorative.
- josefresco 15y ago
  I can concur, being from New England myself frugal is looked at as a desirable trait. In fact, I'd say its synonymous with the term "thrifty" which is another positive association for us.
chollida1 15y ago
> In the US (at least the south) every time I've ever heard anyone say they were frugal they meant they were cheap. Interesting. In Canada, I've lived in Ontario, Alberta and BC. In each province frugal means someone who spends money wisely. ie buying a Toyota Camry instead of a BMW

Shant 15y ago

Agreed. Another good way of looking at it is that managing your spending should be like managing any other finite resource, like time. No one really thinks it makes sense to save your time by not spending time on anything at all. You want to be frugal with your time -- you save it in order to splurge on the things that matter and will give you the most benefit/productivity. I think it's the same with money -- cheapness is a mentally lazy way to save money, frugality is a smarter way. As a side note, I've never understood the obsession with making food purchases your main source of money-saving. The idea of "cheap calories" seems so misguided when you take into account that, down the line, those diabetes and heart disease treatments will be anything but cheap. Not to mention what you lose in productivity with the mental and physical sluggishness that comes from eating crappy, fake food. I'm all for ramen-profitable, but I'll pass on the ramen. If only "3 year old shoes and grass-fed steak profitable" had a better ring to it.

eru 15y ago
Just make it oats-profitable. Oats are still cheap, but not as crappy as Ramen. Though I do like to splurge on food.

jasonkester 15y ago

Indeed, and I think that's what the author was saying too. One example: Craftsman Hand Tools. They have a lifetime guarantee, so provided you don't lose them, you're done buying screwdrivers and wrenches for life. True story. I walked into Sears with a broken socket wrench. Sears guy: "Wow. What happened to that?" Me: "Well, I had a bolt that really didn't want to come loose, so I had a six foot cheater bar and I was bouncing my whole weight on it when suddenly it exploded." Sears guy: "Yeah, that would do it. Let me see what I can do..." [check in the back] "Well, we don't have that model in stock, so here's a new one from our Pro line. It's a bit more expensive, but it's probably a bit stronger too. Good luck with that bolt." I've had that same conversation on 3 different occasions, each with ludicrously mis-used tools broken entirely through my foolishness. All replaced for free with a smile.

ido 15y ago
I've had that same conversation on 3 different occasions, each with ludicrously mis-used tools broken entirely through my foolishness. All replaced for free with a smile. Let me guess - you live in the US. Good luck getting the same result in Europe ;)
- jasonkester 15y ago
  Uh, sure. You're right. Sears are thin on the ground over here. In case I wasn't clear, all the abovementioned conversations happened at Sears department store, the sole distributor of Craftsman hand tools. They have an explicit policy of replacing any broken tool, regardless of how you broke it. So if you rock up with the snapped-off handle of one of those tiny little flathead screwdrivers (complete with a little clip so that you can keep it in your shirt pocket), and a story about how you were trying to pry off a rusted-on cylinder head using it and a large hammer, they'll replace it. (as I have personally verified) And yeah, you're right about the European version of customer service (at least the English variant). Since moving here, I've never once come across a merchant who was familiar with the concept of "the customer is always right". Rather, "It's my shop, so by definition I'm right. And why are there so many customers in here, anyway? I think I'll start closing at 5:30 so I don't have to deal with them."

eru 15y ago

> If they don't, I'll have to buy a replacement pair. You can also get them repaired.

jonnathanson 15y ago

Yes. There are people who take consumption too far, and there are people who take frugality to the point of miserliness. I don't think it's fair to peg the definition of frugality to either of these extremes. Furthermore, I take issue with the author's (or anyone's) attempts to stake out objective ground on what does or does not constitute "the right place" to spend money. Everyone lives differently. "The right places" are subjective. If I derive a ton of personal utility and happiness from splurging on something someone else considers worthless, while saving on something someone else considers vital, then that's my prerogative. So long as my overall strategy is sound, and I'm living within or under my means, I'm fine with my choices.