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Jokes about the [Birth and Death of JavaScript](https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/ta

Jokes about the [Birth and Death of JavaScript](https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death...) aside, I love the concept of WASM and that we're making the web a more robust compile target. One of the big limitations in my mind is that I still don't know of that many people using it in production at scale. Is there a list, or well known set of examples (other than Figma), who are using WASM in prod?

colesantiago 6y ago
Shopify is using WASM in production [0] [0] https://shopify.engineering/shopify-webassembly https://shopify.engineering/shopify-webassembly
pjmlp 6y ago
Autodesk. https://www.infoq.com/presentations/autocad-webassembly/ https://www.infoq.com/presentations/autocad-webassembly/ https://blogs.autodesk.com/autocad/autocad-web-app-google-io-2018/ https://blogs.autodesk.com/autocad/autocad-web-app-google-io... https://forge.autodesk.com/blog/load-encrypted-model-data-webassembly-and-rust https://forge.autodesk.com/blog/load-encrypted-model-data-we... BabylonJS plugins https://babylonjs.medium.com/marker-tracking-in-babylon-js-ce99490be1dd https://babylonjs.medium.com/marker-tracking-in-babylon-js-c... Blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor Uno https://platform.uno/ https://platform.uno/
- Yuioup 6y ago
  The 90s called. They want their RAD tools back.
  - paulgb 6y ago
    Let’s get them on the phone and negotiate a joint-custody deal, then, because I feel like RAD has only gone downhill since then. Thinking back to how easy it is to open up VB5, drag-and-drop a UI, and ship an .exe that anyone could run (yes, because of MS’s OS monopoly, but still), the current mess required to build a similarly complex app for the web feels like a serious regression.
    - tomphoolery 6y ago
      what about https://www.animaapp.com/ https://www.animaapp.com/ ?
  - sbarre 6y ago
    Hi 90s, this is 2020... OP can't take your call right now because they are busy building low-code environments to help companies keep their dozens of bootcamp hires productively building in-house line-of-business tools that will be a nightmare of maintenance and technical debt in 3 years. Did you want to leave a message? Perhaps some kind of cautionary tale?
arconis987 6y ago
Figma is written in C++, compiled to WebAssembly. Probably the most advanced web-based design tool in the world. I think they have like 4-5M users, and a $2B valuation. https://madewithwebassembly.com/showcase/figma/ https://madewithwebassembly.com/showcase/figma/
- stopyellingatme 6y ago
  Figma is an actual tool, written for the web. Lots of great engineering happening over there.
suprfsat 6y ago
Google Duo's web client has some wasm code cached under the name 'wasm-clips'.
texodus 6y ago
Perspective is developed at JPMorgan https://github.com/finos/perspective/ https://github.com/finos/perspective/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kowsheek 6y ago
We release a web-based ray tracer built with WASM that's integrated into our existing 3D/AR/VR platform: https://twitter.com/ksqio/status/1334962197324320768?s=20 https://twitter.com/ksqio/status/1334962197324320768?s=20
brundolf 6y ago
The problem is that it's hard to use as a primary language because of a lack of direct Web API access. So basically right now it's not a casual decision to say "I prefer X over JS, so I'll just use that instead because it targets WASM!" Because there's this enormous cost of crossing that API barrier (which means you'll be using some JS regardless, directly or indirectly). So for now the value-proposition only really makes sense for a fairly narrow subset of projects: mostly ones where client-side pure-compute is a bottleneck. Theoretically API access is being worked on, but I think it's still a ways out.
- postalrat 6y ago
  Direct access seems improbable and even undesirable. Libraries can be written and shared to expose what you want to the wasm you need to run.
  - brundolf 6y ago
    Lots of people would like the web to become a language-agnostic platform. I don't hate JS the way some do, but even I'd be excited about that prospect. That can never really happen until WASM has direct API access. That said, I tried just now to find where I read that this was on the long-term roadmap and I'm having trouble finding it. So maybe you're right that it isn't currently planned.
dboreham 6y ago
I'm also intrigued by the possibilities of WebAssembly. However I also have a nagging feeling "didn't we already do this with Java, 20 years ago?". Wondering what's different this time, or is this just a MySpace vs Facebook second-times-the-charm thing.
- TheRealPomax 6y ago
  For one, no one needs to install WASM, nor are they going to run into versioning issues because the OS has a hard dependency on it. Every single person with a computer, from a smart phone to render farm workstations, will have WASM support because those devices will have a browser. The only browser that doesn't support it is the legacy IE line of browsers, of which only 11 is still supported, and which only runs on systems that will happily run Edge, instead. Devs can rely on the fact that users won't need to install a single thing, and users can rely on the fact that they're not going to have to go through the insanity that is "trying to install the right version of Boobletech(tm) Meep(r)" or, hell: "trying to get their OS to even acknowledge that the preinstalled version of java is over a decade old and it needs to stop using it instead of the new version you installed". If your compiler can target WebAssembly, and your users are on computers with operating systems that are still supported, your WASM application will work for them, because everyone has a browser.
  - worik 6y ago
    Unless your user is using a iPhone.
    - austincummings 6y ago
      Safari has support for WebAssembly.
    - TheRealPomax 6y ago
      Not unless your iphone is a hand-me-down from someone who themselves got it as a hand-me-down? https://caniuse.com/?search=wasm https://caniuse.com/?search=wasm
- 6y ago
austincummings 6y ago
Twitch also appears to be using it, although I don't know what for.
jayflux 6y ago
I know the Birth and death of JS gets mentioned quite a lot in WASM context (even as a joke) but I really don't see that being the case. Most web applications/sites are simple, and won't need to be compiled at a lower level in order to work. On average JS developers will be cheaper than C/C++/Rust developers to hire, so I don't see shops changing their personnel or stack anytime soon, especially if the job is to knock up a website that's a bit interactive. It simply won't be viable to have low-level engineers do things like "build a dropdown nav" or "make an interactive carousel", and these sort of tasks will always be around. WASM is there to augment JS in places JS isn't suitable for, rather than outright replace it. JS will definitely still exist. To answer your Q there's also a comprehensive list of projects using Web Assembly on this site: https://madewithwebassembly.com/all-projects https://madewithwebassembly.com/all-projects
echeese 6y ago
Google Earth: https://earth.google.com/web/ https://earth.google.com/web/
zo1 6y ago
Side note: Does anyone know why that video isn't on Youtube? I've tried to find it, but alas I can't. Copyright? Moral reasons? What? https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gary+bernhardt+birth+and+death+of+javascript https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gary+bernhardt+...
konaraddi 6y ago
Additional examples of WebAssembly being used at scale that I haven't seen others mention yet: Microsoft - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/garage/wall-of-fame/calc-ts-in-excel-for-the-web/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/garage/wall-of-fame/calc-ts-... Adobe - https://medium.com/adobetech/acrobat-on-the-web-powered-by-webassembly-782385e4947e https://medium.com/adobetech/acrobat-on-the-web-powered-by-w... Fastly - https://www.fastly.com/blog/announcing-lucet-fastly-native-webassembly-compiler-runtime https://www.fastly.com/blog/announcing-lucet-fastly-native-w...
maxgraey 6y ago
There site which aggregate prod use cases: https://madewithwebassembly.com/ https://madewithwebassembly.com/
maxgraey 6y ago
Ruffle - A Flash Player emulator over WebAssembly: https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle
TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
Unity, the very popular 3D game engine, can “export” games to run in the browser. WebAssembly is undoubtedly involved.

colesantiago 6y ago

Shopify is using WASM in production [0] [0] https://shopify.engineering/shopify-webassembly https://shopify.engineering/shopify-webassembly

pjmlp 6y ago

Autodesk. https://www.infoq.com/presentations/autocad-webassembly/ https://www.infoq.com/presentations/autocad-webassembly/ https://blogs.autodesk.com/autocad/autocad-web-app-google-io-2018/ https://blogs.autodesk.com/autocad/autocad-web-app-google-io... https://forge.autodesk.com/blog/load-encrypted-model-data-webassembly-and-rust https://forge.autodesk.com/blog/load-encrypted-model-data-we... BabylonJS plugins https://babylonjs.medium.com/marker-tracking-in-babylon-js-ce99490be1dd https://babylonjs.medium.com/marker-tracking-in-babylon-js-c... Blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor Uno https://platform.uno/ https://platform.uno/

Yuioup 6y ago
The 90s called. They want their RAD tools back.
- paulgb 6y ago
  Let’s get them on the phone and negotiate a joint-custody deal, then, because I feel like RAD has only gone downhill since then. Thinking back to how easy it is to open up VB5, drag-and-drop a UI, and ship an .exe that anyone could run (yes, because of MS’s OS monopoly, but still), the current mess required to build a similarly complex app for the web feels like a serious regression.
  - tomphoolery 6y ago
    what about https://www.animaapp.com/ https://www.animaapp.com/ ?
- sbarre 6y ago
  Hi 90s, this is 2020... OP can't take your call right now because they are busy building low-code environments to help companies keep their dozens of bootcamp hires productively building in-house line-of-business tools that will be a nightmare of maintenance and technical debt in 3 years. Did you want to leave a message? Perhaps some kind of cautionary tale?

arconis987 6y ago

Figma is written in C++, compiled to WebAssembly. Probably the most advanced web-based design tool in the world. I think they have like 4-5M users, and a $2B valuation. https://madewithwebassembly.com/showcase/figma/ https://madewithwebassembly.com/showcase/figma/

stopyellingatme 6y ago
Figma is an actual tool, written for the web. Lots of great engineering happening over there.

suprfsat 6y ago

Google Duo's web client has some wasm code cached under the name 'wasm-clips'.

texodus 6y ago

Perspective is developed at JPMorgan https://github.com/finos/perspective/ https://github.com/finos/perspective/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

kowsheek 6y ago

We release a web-based ray tracer built with WASM that's integrated into our existing 3D/AR/VR platform: https://twitter.com/ksqio/status/1334962197324320768?s=20 https://twitter.com/ksqio/status/1334962197324320768?s=20

brundolf 6y ago

The problem is that it's hard to use as a primary language because of a lack of direct Web API access. So basically right now it's not a casual decision to say "I prefer X over JS, so I'll just use that instead because it targets WASM!" Because there's this enormous cost of crossing that API barrier (which means you'll be using some JS regardless, directly or indirectly). So for now the value-proposition only really makes sense for a fairly narrow subset of projects: mostly ones where client-side pure-compute is a bottleneck. Theoretically API access is being worked on, but I think it's still a ways out.

postalrat 6y ago
Direct access seems improbable and even undesirable. Libraries can be written and shared to expose what you want to the wasm you need to run.
- brundolf 6y ago
  Lots of people would like the web to become a language-agnostic platform. I don't hate JS the way some do, but even I'd be excited about that prospect. That can never really happen until WASM has direct API access. That said, I tried just now to find where I read that this was on the long-term roadmap and I'm having trouble finding it. So maybe you're right that it isn't currently planned.

dboreham 6y ago

I'm also intrigued by the possibilities of WebAssembly. However I also have a nagging feeling "didn't we already do this with Java, 20 years ago?". Wondering what's different this time, or is this just a MySpace vs Facebook second-times-the-charm thing.

TheRealPomax 6y ago
For one, no one needs to install WASM, nor are they going to run into versioning issues because the OS has a hard dependency on it. Every single person with a computer, from a smart phone to render farm workstations, will have WASM support because those devices will have a browser. The only browser that doesn't support it is the legacy IE line of browsers, of which only 11 is still supported, and which only runs on systems that will happily run Edge, instead. Devs can rely on the fact that users won't need to install a single thing, and users can rely on the fact that they're not going to have to go through the insanity that is "trying to install the right version of Boobletech(tm) Meep(r)" or, hell: "trying to get their OS to even acknowledge that the preinstalled version of java is over a decade old and it needs to stop using it instead of the new version you installed". If your compiler can target WebAssembly, and your users are on computers with operating systems that are still supported, your WASM application will work for them, because everyone has a browser.
- worik 6y ago
  Unless your user is using a iPhone.
  - austincummings 6y ago
    Safari has support for WebAssembly.
  - TheRealPomax 6y ago
    Not unless your iphone is a hand-me-down from someone who themselves got it as a hand-me-down? https://caniuse.com/?search=wasm https://caniuse.com/?search=wasm
6y ago

austincummings 6y ago

Twitch also appears to be using it, although I don't know what for.

jayflux 6y ago

I know the Birth and death of JS gets mentioned quite a lot in WASM context (even as a joke) but I really don't see that being the case. Most web applications/sites are simple, and won't need to be compiled at a lower level in order to work. On average JS developers will be cheaper than C/C++/Rust developers to hire, so I don't see shops changing their personnel or stack anytime soon, especially if the job is to knock up a website that's a bit interactive. It simply won't be viable to have low-level engineers do things like "build a dropdown nav" or "make an interactive carousel", and these sort of tasks will always be around. WASM is there to augment JS in places JS isn't suitable for, rather than outright replace it. JS will definitely still exist. To answer your Q there's also a comprehensive list of projects using Web Assembly on this site: https://madewithwebassembly.com/all-projects https://madewithwebassembly.com/all-projects

echeese 6y ago

Google Earth: https://earth.google.com/web/ https://earth.google.com/web/

zo1 6y ago

Side note: Does anyone know why that video isn't on Youtube? I've tried to find it, but alas I can't. Copyright? Moral reasons? What? https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gary+bernhardt+birth+and+death+of+javascript https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gary+bernhardt+...

konaraddi 6y ago

Additional examples of WebAssembly being used at scale that I haven't seen others mention yet: Microsoft - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/garage/wall-of-fame/calc-ts-in-excel-for-the-web/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/garage/wall-of-fame/calc-ts-... Adobe - https://medium.com/adobetech/acrobat-on-the-web-powered-by-webassembly-782385e4947e https://medium.com/adobetech/acrobat-on-the-web-powered-by-w... Fastly - https://www.fastly.com/blog/announcing-lucet-fastly-native-webassembly-compiler-runtime https://www.fastly.com/blog/announcing-lucet-fastly-native-w...

maxgraey 6y ago

There site which aggregate prod use cases: https://madewithwebassembly.com/ https://madewithwebassembly.com/

maxgraey 6y ago

Ruffle - A Flash Player emulator over WebAssembly: https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle

TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago

Unity, the very popular 3D game engine, can “export” games to run in the browser. WebAssembly is undoubtedly involved.