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Firefox seems hell bent on going down a deep dark path. A path only they seem convinced about. It will come a time where they'll have no takers. And we'll be le

Firefox seems hell bent on going down a deep dark path. A path only they seem convinced about. It will come a time where they'll have no takers. And we'll be left with chromium. Controversial take: I want to see this happen sooner rather than later. So the internet can finally wake up. And we will be forced to build something that actually works for ALL the internet.

zepto 6y ago
Most people in this thread seem to be arguing for both Mozilla and Apple to completely fail, and for Chromium to dominate. You as well. What makes you think anyone will wake up to anything? We’ll end up with the most closed system ever created. If you want something else to be built - why not argue for for it, rather than arguing for the worst possible outcome?
- freebuju 6y ago
  Again another controversial take: I want Firefox to die and burn so that we can build a new FOR ALL browser based on it from its ashes. It is open source after all. The reason I'm arguing for the worst possible outcome is so that we can have the change we badly need. We cannot take back Firefox while Mozilla is still at the helm of the browser. Not listening to your user base and making iron-fist decisions like this over & over again will make this a reality sooner rather than later.
  - zepto 6y ago
    What makes you assume anything would different if Firefox dies? As far as I can either both Chromium and Firefox could be forked right now, just as easily as they could be in an objectively worse future that you seem to want. The reason Firefox and chromium are supported is because it’s an insane amount of professional work to develop a browser, and they are both funded by money from Google search. Where is the funding to develop an alternative going to come from?
    - freebuju 6y ago
      I get it that you want to fight for Firefox. I really do. It's just that my fight is somehow for it and largely for the entirety of the internet. > What makes you assume anything would different if Firefox dies? At the very least we would be free from the clutches of Mozilla and it's gross incompetence. Chromium & Firefox browsers have been forked plenty times by different developers/corps for different reasons. The internet battle won't be won by a fork. The most famous of forks being Microsoft Edge, another evil player. Which is surprising close to surpassing FF btw [0] It's so bad even Safari is ahead of Firefox on the desktop market share. As for funding Firefox, they can and should be actively pro-donation. I would be willing to pitch in even if it made a slight difference. Pocket & VPN should be marketed and developed upon. Am sure there's more the mother entity can come up with to add to its revenues. These alternative projects should be pursued using an R&D budget from its revenue. Firefox is still a large enough player in the browser game, its search engine default is a gold mine commanding hundreds of millions from top investors. If they fire their top dollar guzzling CEO [1] and continue to trim down on non-essentials, I don't see any reason why Firefox couldn't get back on track to its former glory. [0] https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ [1] https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-execs-salary-up-400/2050/ https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...
      - zepto 6y ago
        I agree forks haven’t been successful, but I still don’t understand how we’d be free from the ‘clutches of Mozilla’ if Firefox died. I don’t see Google funding anyone else at this point. If the battle won’t be won by a fork are you suggesting someone build a clean room browser? If so, who is going to fund it?
        freebuju 6y ago
        Simple Firefox dies Mozilla does too. I mean this doesn't require any explanation. The point of trying out new products like VPN, relays SHOULD be to find alternative funding for Firefox's development. Also what makes you think it is only Google who can fund Firefox? This is a pretty shallow (and lazy) reasoning, pardon my language. I'm suggesting we disband Mozilla as it is the core problem with Firefox. Clean browser from scratch or not, we need a chromium alternative. Direct question that cannot be answered at one go. Though I sure do know I don't want Google directly involved with the funds to the browser engine alternative. This poses the biggest threat to internet freedom and privacy in general.

zepto 6y ago

Most people in this thread seem to be arguing for both Mozilla and Apple to completely fail, and for Chromium to dominate. You as well. What makes you think anyone will wake up to anything? We’ll end up with the most closed system ever created. If you want something else to be built - why not argue for for it, rather than arguing for the worst possible outcome?

freebuju 6y ago
Again another controversial take: I want Firefox to die and burn so that we can build a new FOR ALL browser based on it from its ashes. It is open source after all. The reason I'm arguing for the worst possible outcome is so that we can have the change we badly need. We cannot take back Firefox while Mozilla is still at the helm of the browser. Not listening to your user base and making iron-fist decisions like this over & over again will make this a reality sooner rather than later.
- zepto 6y ago
  What makes you assume anything would different if Firefox dies? As far as I can either both Chromium and Firefox could be forked right now, just as easily as they could be in an objectively worse future that you seem to want. The reason Firefox and chromium are supported is because it’s an insane amount of professional work to develop a browser, and they are both funded by money from Google search. Where is the funding to develop an alternative going to come from?
  - freebuju 6y ago
    I get it that you want to fight for Firefox. I really do. It's just that my fight is somehow for it and largely for the entirety of the internet. > What makes you assume anything would different if Firefox dies? At the very least we would be free from the clutches of Mozilla and it's gross incompetence. Chromium & Firefox browsers have been forked plenty times by different developers/corps for different reasons. The internet battle won't be won by a fork. The most famous of forks being Microsoft Edge, another evil player. Which is surprising close to surpassing FF btw [0] It's so bad even Safari is ahead of Firefox on the desktop market share. As for funding Firefox, they can and should be actively pro-donation. I would be willing to pitch in even if it made a slight difference. Pocket & VPN should be marketed and developed upon. Am sure there's more the mother entity can come up with to add to its revenues. These alternative projects should be pursued using an R&D budget from its revenue. Firefox is still a large enough player in the browser game, its search engine default is a gold mine commanding hundreds of millions from top investors. If they fire their top dollar guzzling CEO [1] and continue to trim down on non-essentials, I don't see any reason why Firefox couldn't get back on track to its former glory. [0] https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ [1] https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-execs-salary-up-400/2050/ https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...
    - zepto 6y ago
      I agree forks haven’t been successful, but I still don’t understand how we’d be free from the ‘clutches of Mozilla’ if Firefox died. I don’t see Google funding anyone else at this point. If the battle won’t be won by a fork are you suggesting someone build a clean room browser? If so, who is going to fund it?
      - freebuju 6y ago
        Simple Firefox dies Mozilla does too. I mean this doesn't require any explanation. The point of trying out new products like VPN, relays SHOULD be to find alternative funding for Firefox's development. Also what makes you think it is only Google who can fund Firefox? This is a pretty shallow (and lazy) reasoning, pardon my language. I'm suggesting we disband Mozilla as it is the core problem with Firefox. Clean browser from scratch or not, we need a chromium alternative. Direct question that cannot be answered at one go. Though I sure do know I don't want Google directly involved with the funds to the browser engine alternative. This poses the biggest threat to internet freedom and privacy in general.