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Drone users face new rules across Europe and UK
- barnacled 6y agoI am super curious about the DJI mini 2 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ayibagexi-Sashas-Fierce-Lemonade-Aluminum/dp/B07FSQ6BGV/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ayibagexi-Sashas-Fierce-Lemonade-Al... - I hope this won't get overly impacted by the new rules (I am in the UK).
- meheleventyone 6y agoThe new rules basically mean anything under 250g needs no licence unless it has a camera in which case you need an operator id. You can read all the related info here: https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code/getting-what-you-need-to-fly https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code/getting-what-yo...
- barnacled 6y agoah yeah there's a camera so would need to get an operator ID. Thanks!
- zimpenfish 6y agoConfusingly, this page implies that you always need Flyer + Operator ID even for <250g drones. https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Recreational-drones/Flying-in-the-open-category/ https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Recreation...
- markalexander 6y agoI believe it’s because a UAV is only called a ‘drone’ in these regulations if it’s at least 250g. I agree the rules are annoyingly confusing and the information is spread piecemeal over multiple documents. They should fix that.
- jiofih 6y agoAre there any drones without a camera? How would you even fly it?
- leetcrew 6y agounder US hobbyist drone rules, you are required to maintain line of sight at all times. if you need a camera to fly the drone, you are probably breaking the rules.
- tjoff 6y agoMost drones didn't have a camera for many years. You fly it visually. And even if you have a camera you have to be in line of sight anyway.
- gambiting 6y agoI mean......RC helicopters have existed for decades and are far harder to control than drones. Look at the insanity that is possible with training and skill, no cameras needed: https://youtu.be/PptMrBFAO-A https://youtu.be/PptMrBFAO-A
- sillysaurusx 6y agoHah, 249 grams. That just barely puts it in the lightweight/least-restricted category. I wonder if that was an intentional design decision.
- Tomte 6y agoOf course, just as the last Mini.
- meheleventyone 6y agoYes: https://content.dji.com/why-did-dji-create-a-249-gram-drone/ https://content.dji.com/why-did-dji-create-a-249-gram-drone/
- bluescrn 6y agoEveryone's going to be making <250g drones now, between this and the US remote ID stuff. It'll be interesting to see just how capable they get.
- dingaling 6y agoPerhaps multiple types of 249g drones with individual capabilities that can combine in the air, Power Rangers style. One could be the camera platform, another with a larger battery....
- andylynch 6y agoDJI make a point of saying on the mini 2 home page that it’s <249g. Probably for this reason!
- bitL 6y agoMini 2 is impacted as it has a camera that could be used to film sensitive personal things. Also, you need a yearly insurance for it.
- markalexander 6y agoThe camera means it needs registered, but it’s not very onerous and there are no competency requirements. The new rules actually give you more freedom in terms of where you can fly, so it’s a good deal IMO. You only need insurance for commercial operations.
- bitL 6y agoI looked over at some Austrian and German pages wrt new EU rules and they all mention that Mini 2 has to be insured (25-50EUR/year).
- markalexander 6y agoWell, member states are free to go beyond the EU rules and add their own local ones, so it might be true in those countries. I don’t believe you need insurance for hobby activities in the UK, though I’m not an expert and open to being corrected.
- markalexander 6y agoI have one and I’m in London. My understanding is these new rules actually free things up significantly for drones in that weight class. Previously, you couldn’t fly over ‘congested’ areas, near people, buildings, etc. So it was very difficult to fly fully legal around London. The new rules remove those restrictions. All they require in exchange is registration for £9/year. The sub 250g drones don’t require you to do the online certification or get a flyer ID. London still has a bunch of special security zones you can’t fly in, so you won’t be getting any nice shots of Canary Wharf, but it does open things up a lot. I’m concerned that the police won’t be up to date with the new regulations though, and apparently they can just seize your equipment and make it very painful to get back.
- tjoff 6y agoThe sub 250g drones don’t require you to do the online certification or get a flyer ID. I could very much be mistaken, but I thought the special rules regarding <250g drones only apply if the drone does not have a camera. The DJI Mini does.
- pmuk 6y agoRegistration is required for <250g drones if they are camera equipped, but not if they are toys.
- markalexander 6y agoThere are two distinct things: an operator ID and a flyer ID. The first is basically just a register of ownership. No test or competency, unlike the latter, which does require you to show you know a little about the rules. For sub 250g drones without a camera, you don’t need either of these. If it does have a camera, you need an operator ID but not a flyer ID. So you have to fill out a form with your name and address, and stick the ID to your drone, but there’s no certification element like there is when you have a heavier drone and need a flyer ID too.
- NikolaNovak 6y agoI don't mind drone rules in principle. Wild west was fun while it lasted but we need to be aware we are in control of a flying chunk of metal going at high speed controlled by people who probably aren't experts and haven't practiced emergency avoidance maneuvers enough. The annoying part right now though is that while we are figuring it all out, regulations are changing fast and often. It seems you could almost buy a drone and be in different legal framework by the time you fly it. Certainly inside one season the reasonably expensive (for us) dji my friend and I bought halvsies went from completely unencumbered to needing licensing because it was over 250g. In USA it seems they went through a few frameworks last few years as well. Which I understand, it's a new territory and moving fast... Just makes it a bit tricky to stay informed, legal and compliant.
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- xwdv 6y agoUnfortunately for authorities, the fact is by the time they catch an unregistered drone, the pilot is long gone.
- simion314 6y agoI assume the rules would fix this so any medium and large drones will have to be registered like cars.
- bluescrn 6y agoAnd as with cars, the real criminals will probably steal one for their nefarious uses, rather than buy and register their own. Or build one from parts that are now widely available. You won't stop criminals using drones by forcing hobbyists to register even their ~30g 'Tiny Whoop' drones. Not sure it'll even have much impact on careless/reckless flying, as the people doing that are the sort of people who probably won't even read the rules before playing with their shiny new toy right next to an airport on a windy day...
- dragonwriter 6y ago> You won't stop criminals using drones by forcing hobbyists to register No, if criminals are going to steal drones because of registration requirements, what that does is add another crime, that will often be detected earlier than the major crime they intend to commit and which adds to the probability that there will be sufficient evidence to convict them of at least one crime.
- simion314 6y agoLicense number on cars are not only for criminals and terrorists. There are also used to identify who hit your parked car, who hit a person and run , who is driving dangerously.
- ehnto 6y agoI figure if the operator is doing something illegal, they might also risk not running an ID. I also wonder how the IDs will work, are they just written on the drone or do they need to have transponders like aircraft? I feel like transponders are the only way they could effectively enforce the rules.
- alkonaut 6y ago”Europe and UK” Who will inform them they only left the EU, and they can’t actually ever leave Europe?
- ben_w 6y agoIn the same way Canada and Mexico are technically both part of America despite not being part of the USA, this is a reasonably well understood linguistic shortcut.
- bennyelv 6y agoThe term "Europe" is often used synonymously with "European Union" here, and that's what it means in this context.
- matthewmacleod 6y agoGiven that the UK's regulatory relationship with the rest of Europe fundamentally changes in a little over eight hours, it's hardly unreasonable for a UK news source to be extremely explicit about this, given the common shorthand of using the term "Europe" to refer to a mishmash of the EU/EEA/EFTA.
- rad_gruchalski 6y agoPublished by bbc. Isn’t it ironic...
- chrisseaton 6y agoWere you genuinely confused by the title, or are you just pretending to be and actually you understood it just fine? The article is from the UK, where 'Europe' colloquially means the rest of the continent distinct from the UK. Actually so does just 'continent' and 'continental' on its own. This isn't an ignorance thing, or a Brexit thing, it's been this way as long as I've been around, long before anyone was seriously suggesting we leave.
- globular-toast 6y agoIt's been around before anyone was suggesting to join too...
- ehnto 6y ago> The low-risk category, which accounts for the majority of hobbyist drones, will be managed through the CE mark, which is a process for products sold in Europe to ensure they meet health, safety and environmental standards. How does this work for home-made drones? You wouldn't have a CE mark.
- zimpenfish 6y agohttps://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Recreational-drones/Flying-in-the-open-category/ https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Recreation... seems to suggest that's fine as long as you meet all the other criteria.
- throwaway2245 6y agoThe CE mark is the commercial manufacturer's confirmation that they follow the EU regulations and have appropriately documented this. A home-made drone would presumably still need to follow the same relevant regulations. https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP2003_EU_Drone_Rules_Factsheet_V7%201.pdf https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP2003_EU_Drone_Rules_... includes a reference to drones that are "privately-built and less than 250g"
- bluescrn 6y agoAnd what exactly is the definition of 'toy drone'? That could be the difference between having to register a ~30g 'Tiny Whoop' style drone or not.
- ohmaigad 6y agoThat is up to the manufacturer. Anyway, you don't need to register the drone in this kind of case, only you as a pilot and even that is questionable in the case of Tiny Whoop which would be flown mostly inside (i believe that the regulation doesn't cover indoors).
- pjc50 6y agoYou don't need to CE mark things that aren't sold.
- acd 6y agoI think its good that there are rules in place. When I was visiting a bird nature reserve someone started flying a drone to film the birds. That obviously disturbers the birds since it was a nesting area. I think we should not trust self policing or regulation here and manufacturers should geo fence off such nature reserve areas as no fly zones. And I will be straight either they geo fence or they do not get to sell their products on the market and I think that there should be a hefty fine if you ignore the rules. Our public spaces and the environment and nature is a shared space, and you cannot do whatever you feel like in a space we share if its disturbing, neither should and can I.
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- jiofih 6y agoWhat if come in and shoot the birds? Should guns have mandatory GPS so they can be geofenced too?
- PoignardAzur 6y agoIn most developed countries gun ownership is controlled enough that you don't really need to worry about that. If we're talking about that one developed country where everybody and their grandmother carries a gun, I get the feeling geofencing them would not be a popular measure. But yeah, in principle this is totally a thing we should do.
- ALittleLight 6y agoI assume axes need regulating, so you don't cut down the trees, matches so you can't burn them, poisons so you don't kill the birds, speakers because loud noise could disrupt them, etc. ?
- astrea 6y agoYou act as if you're making a valid counter-point, but all of these actions would indeed be punishable by their respective law or regulation.
- bitL 6y agoOK, so a new scenario: You buy a small drone for fun. Next, you need to register it, then take some online test periodically, then pay yearly insurance fee, later you'll be required for the drone to register with a mobile network to track its use. All for a thing you might use 2-3 times a year on average. If you managed to buy a DJI drone, it might be confiscated upon entering the US. I'd say it's over for this hobby as well as for drone manufacturers.
- kube-system 6y ago> If you managed to buy a DJI drone, it might be confiscated upon entering the US. Why would that be the case?
- bitL 6y agoDJI is on some US government blacklist and it's a question how the situation develops next year.
- kube-system 6y agoDJI is on the "Entity List", which means that US companies are required to have a license to export certain controlled export items to them. It doesn't ban anyone from buying or possessing DJI products.
- bitL 6y agoBeing on the entity list right now is a pretty large warning sign, and an indicator that things might escalate further, right?