4 ms·

The radial numbering can be a useful ‘signpost’. As an anti-invasion tactic during World War II, a civil defence measure was to remove many road signs. That’d

by robga 6y ago

The radial numbering can be a useful ‘signpost’. As an anti-invasion tactic during World War II, a civil defence measure was to remove many road signs. That’d stop those nazis in their tracks. So to this day, I find the UK a difficult country to navigate by signs alone as they are often absent at important local junctions. In many other parts of the world, you can trace your way from a major destination by signs at forks/exits. In the UK, this often only works on ‘M’otorway routes. With satnav now ubiquitous, much local signposting tends to deplete over time, unless it is to control traffic flow.

tokamak-teapot 6y ago
This is the opposite of my experience. I often navigate by road signs alone in the UK. Maybe your experience is from a particular part of the UK where this depletion has happened, but I thought things like direction signage were centrally managed.
- prennert 6y ago
  Are you native to the UK? (I.e. do you have a good knowledge of the cities and areas you are driving to and passing by?) Is there a system you are using to navigate / prepare when driving to areas that are new to you? Particularly off motorways?
  - djaychela 6y ago
    I'm native to the UK, but I've not found any of the difficulties that you mention in your previous post. I'm 49, so I'm from the pre-sat-nav generation, and I will generally not use one [x] until I get to the city in question, or traffic/isues necessitate it, so I'll navigate from major town to major town to get where I'm going. I don't find that they will generally disappear from signs (unless you're past them), and I find the system used in the UK very logical. Also, I don't find the lack of reflectors at the edge of country roads to be an issue - most are delineated by white lines, which means it's easy to see the edges at night. This is not the case in most African countries, and I found driving through Africa at night a challenging, tiring experience because of this, but maybe if you're used to reflectors, it's the same situation just at a different level. x - I don't think it's good to be babied and feel you need a sat nav for every journey. Since ditching mine (I was a keen user until maybe 3-4 years ago), I've felt much more independent and capable, and happy to drive wherever. I'm sure I'll be in the minority in this opinion, though.
    - Nexxxeh 6y ago
      I try to remember to sat nav as much as possible, for the live traffic updates. I also follow the local police force on Facebook as they post road closures due to RTC etc on there.
  - nicky0 6y ago
    In the pre-satnav days I would consult a road atlas before the trip, and note the roads, turnings and principal destinations on a piece of paper. e.g. M1 North to J21 for M69 South M69 South to J2 onto A5 North A5 North for 11 miles to Tamworth turning etc.
  - tokamak-teapot 6y ago
    Native to the UK and I’ll use signs for navigation both in areas I’m familiar with and those I’m not. Some examples: 1. I want to go to a show at a popular venue (arena or theatre sized) in an area I know. If I know vaguely where it is, I’ll drive into the city centre and probably meet a one way system and follow the signs for the venue. 2. I want to visit a National Trust property. Head for a major road that runs past it and there will be brown signs that give you the best route to it. 3. Travelling somewhere and decide there is a problem with traffic / the weather and look for a detour. Signs are often perfect for choosing the best roads to head for another waypoint and then the best way from there to where you were originally heading. I’m not some kind of crazy person who will only navigate by signs - I check things out on maps and put sat nav on, but I know the limitations of all and often the signs send me on the best route. The people who figure these out and keep them updated are amazing at their job.
- detritus 6y ago
  I'm with you here - I find the UK much easier to drive around than Spain or Italy, at least. Before I set out somewhere, I look at a map and scrawl on a piece of paper a list of the roads and junctions I need to use and after a brief familiarisaiton with the route visually, I rely thereafter solely on road signs. Britain's got great (and beautiful) signage, in my opinion.
prennert 6y ago
I completely agree. Without savnat it would be very hard to navigate in the UK for me. Even with preparation ahead of time. The only useful feature in the UK vs other EU countries I have driven in are compass directions: NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, WEST. Some motorways also have reflectors on the lanes to guide you, which is great and I don't remember from Germany at least. Everything else is weird. Starting from the typography which looks clumsy, to inconsistent signage (which city am I tracking at the moment? Why is it not on the sign anymore?), junction numbers which are sometimes missing, abbreviations of places on signs, directions painted on the tarmac at junctions without signs. A lot of those A roads go through cities, but are rarely labelled as such. Fully consistent with the patchy signs of street names in cities at junctions and house numbers only present on about 30% of houses, particularly shopfronts. Not using the E numbers is just the icing on the cake. Further, driving on the country side is dangerous at night as there are no reflectors on either side of the road. So I guess you are right. Non-locals are still being kept at bay by the leaky signage traditions of the UK.
- jmkd 6y ago
  Just like within British cities, I enjoy having occasionally quirky, inconsistent and unusual routing and signage. On the whole, modern British road signage is of excellent quality and was globally influential. Little history here: http://www.britishroadsignproject.co.uk/jock-kinneir-margaret-calvert/ http://www.britishroadsignproject.co.uk/jock-kinneir-margare... For me, where there are small gaps or occasional quirks it adds to the flavour. I really don't want a rigid grid of apparent perfection imposed over anything. It may be helpful but it is of no cultural value.
- berkut 6y ago
  If you think driving at night in the UK in the countryside (middle of nowhere) is dangerous, you don't want to do it in Australia or NZ... At least the UK (on the non-minor roads) has decent "cat's eyes" that reflect light back very well from the car's headlights, as they have actual mirrors in them. Oz and NZ instead have blocks of plastic embedded in the road instead with a reflective strip on, which in terms of visibility distance is very noticeably poorer (i.e. the reflective power is much less).
donalhunt 6y ago
In Ireland we just chose to use pubs as landmarks... Made things much simpler. =)
- mikhailfranco 6y ago
  Ireland didn't even have post codes until 2015 leave the package for Paddy behind the bar at The Village Inn :)
berkut 6y ago
I'm pretty certain the road signs were replaced after WW2 - it's not like there's no road signs any more. This is the opposite of my experience as well - I've driven in many countries (currently live in NZ), and despite its quirks (not saying it's perfect), I've found using UK road numbers for directions very easy in general compared to other countries that have highways that re-use road numbers in multiple states or something, which has at times caused confusion.

by robga 6y ago

tokamak-teapot 6y ago

This is the opposite of my experience. I often navigate by road signs alone in the UK. Maybe your experience is from a particular part of the UK where this depletion has happened, but I thought things like direction signage were centrally managed.

prennert 6y ago
Are you native to the UK? (I.e. do you have a good knowledge of the cities and areas you are driving to and passing by?) Is there a system you are using to navigate / prepare when driving to areas that are new to you? Particularly off motorways?
- djaychela 6y ago
  I'm native to the UK, but I've not found any of the difficulties that you mention in your previous post. I'm 49, so I'm from the pre-sat-nav generation, and I will generally not use one [x] until I get to the city in question, or traffic/isues necessitate it, so I'll navigate from major town to major town to get where I'm going. I don't find that they will generally disappear from signs (unless you're past them), and I find the system used in the UK very logical. Also, I don't find the lack of reflectors at the edge of country roads to be an issue - most are delineated by white lines, which means it's easy to see the edges at night. This is not the case in most African countries, and I found driving through Africa at night a challenging, tiring experience because of this, but maybe if you're used to reflectors, it's the same situation just at a different level. x - I don't think it's good to be babied and feel you need a sat nav for every journey. Since ditching mine (I was a keen user until maybe 3-4 years ago), I've felt much more independent and capable, and happy to drive wherever. I'm sure I'll be in the minority in this opinion, though.
  - Nexxxeh 6y ago
    I try to remember to sat nav as much as possible, for the live traffic updates. I also follow the local police force on Facebook as they post road closures due to RTC etc on there.
- nicky0 6y ago
  In the pre-satnav days I would consult a road atlas before the trip, and note the roads, turnings and principal destinations on a piece of paper. e.g. M1 North to J21 for M69 South M69 South to J2 onto A5 North A5 North for 11 miles to Tamworth turning etc.
- tokamak-teapot 6y ago
  Native to the UK and I’ll use signs for navigation both in areas I’m familiar with and those I’m not. Some examples: 1. I want to go to a show at a popular venue (arena or theatre sized) in an area I know. If I know vaguely where it is, I’ll drive into the city centre and probably meet a one way system and follow the signs for the venue. 2. I want to visit a National Trust property. Head for a major road that runs past it and there will be brown signs that give you the best route to it. 3. Travelling somewhere and decide there is a problem with traffic / the weather and look for a detour. Signs are often perfect for choosing the best roads to head for another waypoint and then the best way from there to where you were originally heading. I’m not some kind of crazy person who will only navigate by signs - I check things out on maps and put sat nav on, but I know the limitations of all and often the signs send me on the best route. The people who figure these out and keep them updated are amazing at their job.
detritus 6y ago
I'm with you here - I find the UK much easier to drive around than Spain or Italy, at least. Before I set out somewhere, I look at a map and scrawl on a piece of paper a list of the roads and junctions I need to use and after a brief familiarisaiton with the route visually, I rely thereafter solely on road signs. Britain's got great (and beautiful) signage, in my opinion.

prennert 6y ago

I completely agree. Without savnat it would be very hard to navigate in the UK for me. Even with preparation ahead of time. The only useful feature in the UK vs other EU countries I have driven in are compass directions: NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, WEST. Some motorways also have reflectors on the lanes to guide you, which is great and I don't remember from Germany at least. Everything else is weird. Starting from the typography which looks clumsy, to inconsistent signage (which city am I tracking at the moment? Why is it not on the sign anymore?), junction numbers which are sometimes missing, abbreviations of places on signs, directions painted on the tarmac at junctions without signs. A lot of those A roads go through cities, but are rarely labelled as such. Fully consistent with the patchy signs of street names in cities at junctions and house numbers only present on about 30% of houses, particularly shopfronts. Not using the E numbers is just the icing on the cake. Further, driving on the country side is dangerous at night as there are no reflectors on either side of the road. So I guess you are right. Non-locals are still being kept at bay by the leaky signage traditions of the UK.

jmkd 6y ago
Just like within British cities, I enjoy having occasionally quirky, inconsistent and unusual routing and signage. On the whole, modern British road signage is of excellent quality and was globally influential. Little history here: http://www.britishroadsignproject.co.uk/jock-kinneir-margaret-calvert/ http://www.britishroadsignproject.co.uk/jock-kinneir-margare... For me, where there are small gaps or occasional quirks it adds to the flavour. I really don't want a rigid grid of apparent perfection imposed over anything. It may be helpful but it is of no cultural value.
berkut 6y ago
If you think driving at night in the UK in the countryside (middle of nowhere) is dangerous, you don't want to do it in Australia or NZ... At least the UK (on the non-minor roads) has decent "cat's eyes" that reflect light back very well from the car's headlights, as they have actual mirrors in them. Oz and NZ instead have blocks of plastic embedded in the road instead with a reflective strip on, which in terms of visibility distance is very noticeably poorer (i.e. the reflective power is much less).

donalhunt 6y ago

In Ireland we just chose to use pubs as landmarks... Made things much simpler. =)

mikhailfranco 6y ago
Ireland didn't even have post codes until 2015 leave the package for Paddy behind the bar at The Village Inn :)

berkut 6y ago

I'm pretty certain the road signs were replaced after WW2 - it's not like there's no road signs any more. This is the opposite of my experience as well - I've driven in many countries (currently live in NZ), and despite its quirks (not saying it's perfect), I've found using UK road numbers for directions very easy in general compared to other countries that have highways that re-use road numbers in multiple states or something, which has at times caused confusion.