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> Do people not just use Electron App on Desktop It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days.

> Do people not just use Electron App on Desktop It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. Shipping just the app code and using the runtime (edge or chrome i guess, would've been nice to have firefox as a modern xulrunner successor) on the end users machine makes more sense to me.

tuukkah 6y ago
And it's not just the number of installs but also multitasking of multiple browser engines exhausting RAM on typically 16GB laptops.
pedro2 6y ago
For Windows Chredge/Edgium is planned to support that via Microsoft’s something-something API which allows to declare Electronesque-mode for a app and get independent updates to the common Electron layer (and hopefully, reduce memory usage). I don’t recall if such is only available via Windows Store or is only dependent on APPX (which correlates but does not depend on Windows Store - at least not on the server side of it)
- thefounder 6y ago
  Any idea if it will support CORS bypass?
- merb 6y ago
  I never heard of an api from microsoft that has an electron layer. I know of webview2 runtime, but that does not work that well in appx/msix packages. also chakra that could've been close to that is deprecated.
  - pedro2 6y ago
    And I can't seem to find it. As soon as I do I'll post here for you to double check, I may have misunderstood.
  - pedro2 6y ago
    Hum I may have misunderstood the model. I was thinking of this, but there is no mention of Electron anywhere on the docs. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspoweruser.com/windows-10-2004s-new-hosted-app-model-is-pretty-great/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspoweruser.com/windows-10-2004...
  - pedro2 6y ago
    Ok the Electron part was from HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773785
    - merb 6y ago
      oh wow that was helpful, ok there is a uap10:HostRuntime, unfortunatly the same problem than the webview2 has, you need to package your runtime so that it works with the appx model, which is not always the case and thus you need to create your own "runtime" package if there is no electron runtime package that is inside the windows store. basically if nobody provides an up to date hostruntime package, it will be the same case as it is now.
qalmakka 6y ago
There's a lot of buzz lately about flash player being retired. Why couldn't Electron copy its approach? Install a single runtime and run all your apps on it (like Archlinux already does, btw); problem solved. It's pretty much how the JVM or .NET have worked for decades. I understand people don't care about supporting multiple version of the runtime, but there should be a way to reduce the cruft of multiple bundled Chromiums on systems that might have storage constraints (thanks Apple and soldered SSDs)
- masklinn 6y ago
  > There's a lot of buzz lately about flash player being retired. Why couldn't Electron copy its approach? Certainly can't work on mobile platforms where everything is sandboxed.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    Electron doesn't run on mobile platforms anyway.
    - VoxPelli 6y ago
      There are Electron like tools for mobile platforms though
      - nicoburns 6y ago
        True, but most of them already share the runtime, partly because iOS doesn't let you do it any other way if you want JITed JavaScript.
- alexhutcheson 6y ago
  The JVM world is moving away from that approach. The current recommendation is to use jlink[1] to build a custom runtime image, which doesn’t depend on a JRE being present on the system.
  - 6y ago
sirius87 6y ago
Linux Mint's take on this in it's next release seems the most appealing to me. It's based on "Peppermint Ice" [1] "WebApp Manager" uses the Chrome/Chromium/FF installed on your machine and creates a separate browser profile for each "WebApp" you configure and launches the "app" or "site-specific browser" in a new window. Details: [2][3] Works well for simple sites where you're mostly visiting links in the same site, like Youtube. [1] https://youtu.be/UCzL8P3WDd4?t=407 https://youtu.be/UCzL8P3WDd4?t=407 [2] https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3960 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3960 [3] https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager
- phil294 6y ago
  This looks great! But am I right to assume it makes use of FF's SSB feature – now being removed – and will thus soon stop working?
  - sirius87 6y ago
    Not sure. That bug report discussed the --app switch, but I don't see that switch being used by webapp-manager [1] Not sure --class is related. [1] https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager/blob/4a879d11ef243c253f7d609fe814c33eb37c360b/usr/lib/webapp-manager/common.py#L167 https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager/blob/4a879d11ef2...
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
It makes sense as long as forward and backward compatibility are maintained perfectly. If a future version of the runtime breaks something in your application you suddenly lose a lot of the value of this kind of packaging. Ditto if you make an application that uses features only available in the latest runtime.
- neodymiumphish 6y ago
  I imagine you could declare which runtime version is known to work, and then force a compatibility mode with that declaration?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    Sure, but ask yourself why that isn't true of every library and runtime that exists today and you'll see how messy reality messes up the theory.
pcmaffey 6y ago
Or just run them in the browser...
- postalrat 6y ago
  I do. But it's often nice to be able to manage them like an app in the operating system. For example being open them with a command (such as spotlight for mac or searching by name in windows). Always having their own icon in the task bar. Even missing all the chrome around the app window is nice since it reduces clutter and eliminates parts you may accidentally click on.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  When COVID forced us to work from home, I initially resisted installing Slack on my computer. I don't like Electron, and I'd set up my machine such that installing Electron apps was technically difficult anyway. IMO, the UX was horrible. I tried to keep Slack as a pinned Firefox tab, but it was far too easy to accidentally move over to a different website, at which point I stopped getting notifications. I also felt like I had to constantly keep my web browser open—I can't say why that's substantially different than having to keep a Slack application open, but for some reason, the separate dock icon helps me to mentally compartmentalize. When I finally switched to a standalone Slack app, it felt much nicer.
  - samb1729 6y ago
    If you would like to try an alternative Slack client which doesn't require Electron, give Ripcord[0] a try. I'm not affiliated in any way, just a happy user. If you really wanted, it's so lightweight that you could use it just to consistently receive notifications that prompt you to check your pinned tab. [0]: https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
    - O1111OOO 6y ago
      From the website: "Shareware is coming back, baby." I've been on Linux for a while now and have not come across the word shareware in a long time. Odd the it makes me feel nostalgic and (oddly) hopeful (that is: a business model that doesn't rely on tracking, ads or some nebulous behind the scenes actions to monetize you). Nice, straightforward, simple business transaction. Software sales (especially shareware) is really tough. Wish the author some success for his efforts.
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
> It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. Especially considering that old versions of Chromium are likely to have more security vulnerabilities. On the iOS platform, Apple essentially forbids the use of any browser engine other than the WebKit/Nitro engine provided by the OS itself. From the user's point of view this has the advantage of guaranteeing the absence of old and vulnerable browser engines on their system (provided they're up to date with iOS updates, and of course provided Apple hold up their end and maintain their software well). As AnIdiotOnTheNet points out, this requires app vendors to stay on top of testing their app as the iOS browser engine is updated by Apple.
O1111OOO 6y ago
> It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. It's why I liked Microsoft's HTA (HTML Application) approach: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536496(v=vs.85) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536496(... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536495(v=vs.85) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536495(... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application It had lots of potential but never really took off. Looking at Sciter[0] as a lightweight Electron alternative (and a modern HTA replacement). [0] https://sciter.com/ https://sciter.com/

tuukkah 6y ago

And it's not just the number of installs but also multitasking of multiple browser engines exhausting RAM on typically 16GB laptops.

pedro2 6y ago

For Windows Chredge/Edgium is planned to support that via Microsoft’s something-something API which allows to declare Electronesque-mode for a app and get independent updates to the common Electron layer (and hopefully, reduce memory usage). I don’t recall if such is only available via Windows Store or is only dependent on APPX (which correlates but does not depend on Windows Store - at least not on the server side of it)

thefounder 6y ago
Any idea if it will support CORS bypass?
merb 6y ago
I never heard of an api from microsoft that has an electron layer. I know of webview2 runtime, but that does not work that well in appx/msix packages. also chakra that could've been close to that is deprecated.
- pedro2 6y ago
  And I can't seem to find it. As soon as I do I'll post here for you to double check, I may have misunderstood.
- pedro2 6y ago
  Hum I may have misunderstood the model. I was thinking of this, but there is no mention of Electron anywhere on the docs. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspoweruser.com/windows-10-2004s-new-hosted-app-model-is-pretty-great/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspoweruser.com/windows-10-2004...
- pedro2 6y ago
  Ok the Electron part was from HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22773785
  - merb 6y ago
    oh wow that was helpful, ok there is a uap10:HostRuntime, unfortunatly the same problem than the webview2 has, you need to package your runtime so that it works with the appx model, which is not always the case and thus you need to create your own "runtime" package if there is no electron runtime package that is inside the windows store. basically if nobody provides an up to date hostruntime package, it will be the same case as it is now.

qalmakka 6y ago

There's a lot of buzz lately about flash player being retired. Why couldn't Electron copy its approach? Install a single runtime and run all your apps on it (like Archlinux already does, btw); problem solved. It's pretty much how the JVM or .NET have worked for decades. I understand people don't care about supporting multiple version of the runtime, but there should be a way to reduce the cruft of multiple bundled Chromiums on systems that might have storage constraints (thanks Apple and soldered SSDs)

masklinn 6y ago
> There's a lot of buzz lately about flash player being retired. Why couldn't Electron copy its approach? Certainly can't work on mobile platforms where everything is sandboxed.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  Electron doesn't run on mobile platforms anyway.
  - VoxPelli 6y ago
    There are Electron like tools for mobile platforms though
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      True, but most of them already share the runtime, partly because iOS doesn't let you do it any other way if you want JITed JavaScript.
alexhutcheson 6y ago
The JVM world is moving away from that approach. The current recommendation is to use jlink[1] to build a custom runtime image, which doesn’t depend on a JRE being present on the system.
- 6y ago

sirius87 6y ago

Linux Mint's take on this in it's next release seems the most appealing to me. It's based on "Peppermint Ice" [1] "WebApp Manager" uses the Chrome/Chromium/FF installed on your machine and creates a separate browser profile for each "WebApp" you configure and launches the "app" or "site-specific browser" in a new window. Details: [2][3] Works well for simple sites where you're mostly visiting links in the same site, like Youtube. [1] https://youtu.be/UCzL8P3WDd4?t=407 https://youtu.be/UCzL8P3WDd4?t=407 [2] https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3960 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3960 [3] https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager

phil294 6y ago
This looks great! But am I right to assume it makes use of FF's SSB feature – now being removed – and will thus soon stop working?
- sirius87 6y ago
  Not sure. That bug report discussed the --app switch, but I don't see that switch being used by webapp-manager [1] Not sure --class is related. [1] https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager/blob/4a879d11ef243c253f7d609fe814c33eb37c360b/usr/lib/webapp-manager/common.py#L167 https://github.com/linuxmint/webapp-manager/blob/4a879d11ef2...

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

It makes sense as long as forward and backward compatibility are maintained perfectly. If a future version of the runtime breaks something in your application you suddenly lose a lot of the value of this kind of packaging. Ditto if you make an application that uses features only available in the latest runtime.

neodymiumphish 6y ago
I imagine you could declare which runtime version is known to work, and then force a compatibility mode with that declaration?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Sure, but ask yourself why that isn't true of every library and runtime that exists today and you'll see how messy reality messes up the theory.

pcmaffey 6y ago

Or just run them in the browser...

postalrat 6y ago
I do. But it's often nice to be able to manage them like an app in the operating system. For example being open them with a command (such as spotlight for mac or searching by name in windows). Always having their own icon in the task bar. Even missing all the chrome around the app window is nice since it reduces clutter and eliminates parts you may accidentally click on.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
When COVID forced us to work from home, I initially resisted installing Slack on my computer. I don't like Electron, and I'd set up my machine such that installing Electron apps was technically difficult anyway. IMO, the UX was horrible. I tried to keep Slack as a pinned Firefox tab, but it was far too easy to accidentally move over to a different website, at which point I stopped getting notifications. I also felt like I had to constantly keep my web browser open—I can't say why that's substantially different than having to keep a Slack application open, but for some reason, the separate dock icon helps me to mentally compartmentalize. When I finally switched to a standalone Slack app, it felt much nicer.
- samb1729 6y ago
  If you would like to try an alternative Slack client which doesn't require Electron, give Ripcord[0] a try. I'm not affiliated in any way, just a happy user. If you really wanted, it's so lightweight that you could use it just to consistently receive notifications that prompt you to check your pinned tab. [0]: https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
  - O1111OOO 6y ago
    From the website: "Shareware is coming back, baby." I've been on Linux for a while now and have not come across the word shareware in a long time. Odd the it makes me feel nostalgic and (oddly) hopeful (that is: a business model that doesn't rely on tracking, ads or some nebulous behind the scenes actions to monetize you). Nice, straightforward, simple business transaction. Software sales (especially shareware) is really tough. Wish the author some success for his efforts.

MaxBarraclough 6y ago

> It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. Especially considering that old versions of Chromium are likely to have more security vulnerabilities. On the iOS platform, Apple essentially forbids the use of any browser engine other than the WebKit/Nitro engine provided by the OS itself. From the user's point of view this has the advantage of guaranteeing the absence of old and vulnerable browser engines on their system (provided they're up to date with iOS updates, and of course provided Apple hold up their end and maintain their software well). As AnIdiotOnTheNet points out, this requires app vendors to stay on top of testing their app as the iOS browser engine is updated by Apple.

O1111OOO 6y ago

> It would be nice to not have 80+ slightly different chrome installs on a desktop for all the apps these days. It's why I liked Microsoft's HTA (HTML Application) approach: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536496(v=vs.85) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536496(... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536495(v=vs.85) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/ms536495(... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application It had lots of potential but never really took off. Looking at Sciter[0] as a lightweight Electron alternative (and a modern HTA replacement). [0] https://sciter.com/ https://sciter.com/