7 ms·

Buzzfeed Found the Factories Inside China’s Mass Internment Camps

8 points by Gaishan 6y ago

lucian1900 6y ago
Yet again no actual proof, just hearsay and pictures that could be of anything. The anti-China bias in the media is reaching new levels.
- yorwba 6y ago
  Proof of what? Here's an article by Xinhua if you prefer: http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2018-11/05/c_1123667476.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2018-11/05/c_1123667476.ht... 在于田县教育培训中心，已经有食品厂、印刷厂、电子商务基地、制鞋厂等８家企业建立了就业实训基地，帮助５００多名已经毕业的学员实现了就业。 In Yutian County's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutian_County,_Xinjiang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutian_County,_Xinjiang ) education center, there already are a food factory, printing factory, e-commerce base, food factory etc. 8 companies in total have set up practical employment instruction bases to help more than 500 graduates find employment. Are you saying those pictures that "could be of anything" are not in fact the factory buildings that the Chinese government says are there? What else could those buildings be?
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    An issue is how this is portrayed. Clearly the Chinese government sees what they are doing as positive. On the other hand western media with the help of vested interests portray the Chinese government in Xinjiang as barely better than the Nazis. The reality is probably in between, as it often is, but I suspect that many claims are purposely over the top to downright false.
  - lucian1900 6y ago
    Of course there are factories, most developed trade schools anywhere have a path to production. There is however no proof of coercion provided, yet again.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      Regarding coercion, we can again ask Xinhua: http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2019-03/18/c_1124247196.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2019-03/18/c_1124247196.ht... 入教培中心的学员有三方面人员：一是被教唆、胁迫、引诱参与恐怖活动、极端主义活动，或者参与恐怖活动、极端主义活动情节轻微，尚不构成犯罪的人员。二是被教唆、胁迫、引诱参与恐怖活动、极端主义活动，或者参与恐怖活动、极端主义活动，有现实危险性，尚未造成实际危害后果，主观恶性不深，能够认罪悔过，依法可以免除刑罚，自愿接受培训的人员。三是因暴力恐怖、极端主义犯罪被定罪处刑，刑满释放前经评估仍有社会危险性，人民法院依法决定在刑满释放后进行安置教育的人员。 There are three kinds of people sent to education centers: The first are those who have been instigated, forced or lured to participate or who did participate in terrorist or extremist activities, of such slight degree that it does not yet constitute a crime. The second are those who have been instigated, forced or lured to participate or who did participate in terrorist or extremist activities, posing a realistic danger, but not yet causing actual damage, subjectively not deeply evil, pleading guilty and repenting; who, according to law, can be exempted from punishment if they agree to undergo training. The third are those who have been convicted and sentenced for violent terrorism or extremist offenses and who, before their release from prison, are judged to still pose a danger to society, such that a People's Court decides according to law that they should be placed in education. Which of those three groups is not being coerced?
      - lucian1900 6y ago
        You’re talking about specifically the subset of trade schools that are part of the justice system, helping people gain skills so they can be later gainfully employed and not need to turn to crime. Is having a justice system considered nefarious coercion in any country? The problem is the conflation with the majority of trade school attendees in Xinjiang, of which there is no evidence they are anything other than voluntary. All countries that care about their workers material conditions offer trade schools with a path to employment.
        yorwba 6y ago
        > Is having a justice system considered nefarious coercion in any country? The whole point of a justice system is coercion. It is usually considered non-nefarious to reward people for working and to withhold that reward when they do not work; while it is considered nefarious to force people to work and to punish them if they do not work. Simply put, not working should not be a crime. > The problem is the conflation with the majority of trade school attendees in Xinjiang Is there a conflation? It's rather immaterial how the majority is doing when the issue is the treatment of minorities. In any case, I'm curious whether you could point me to any statistics about trade school attendees in Xinjiang.

8 points by Gaishan 6y ago

lucian1900 6y ago

Yet again no actual proof, just hearsay and pictures that could be of anything. The anti-China bias in the media is reaching new levels.

yorwba 6y ago
Proof of what? Here's an article by Xinhua if you prefer: http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2018-11/05/c_1123667476.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2018-11/05/c_1123667476.ht... 在于田县教育培训中心，已经有食品厂、印刷厂、电子商务基地、制鞋厂等８家企业建立了就业实训基地，帮助５００多名已经毕业的学员实现了就业。 In Yutian County's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutian_County,_Xinjiang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutian_County,_Xinjiang ) education center, there already are a food factory, printing factory, e-commerce base, food factory etc. 8 companies in total have set up practical employment instruction bases to help more than 500 graduates find employment. Are you saying those pictures that "could be of anything" are not in fact the factory buildings that the Chinese government says are there? What else could those buildings be?
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  An issue is how this is portrayed. Clearly the Chinese government sees what they are doing as positive. On the other hand western media with the help of vested interests portray the Chinese government in Xinjiang as barely better than the Nazis. The reality is probably in between, as it often is, but I suspect that many claims are purposely over the top to downright false.
- lucian1900 6y ago
  Of course there are factories, most developed trade schools anywhere have a path to production. There is however no proof of coercion provided, yet again.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    Regarding coercion, we can again ask Xinhua: http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2019-03/18/c_1124247196.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2019-03/18/c_1124247196.ht... 入教培中心的学员有三方面人员：一是被教唆、胁迫、引诱参与恐怖活动、极端主义活动，或者参与恐怖活动、极端主义活动情节轻微，尚不构成犯罪的人员。二是被教唆、胁迫、引诱参与恐怖活动、极端主义活动，或者参与恐怖活动、极端主义活动，有现实危险性，尚未造成实际危害后果，主观恶性不深，能够认罪悔过，依法可以免除刑罚，自愿接受培训的人员。三是因暴力恐怖、极端主义犯罪被定罪处刑，刑满释放前经评估仍有社会危险性，人民法院依法决定在刑满释放后进行安置教育的人员。 There are three kinds of people sent to education centers: The first are those who have been instigated, forced or lured to participate or who did participate in terrorist or extremist activities, of such slight degree that it does not yet constitute a crime. The second are those who have been instigated, forced or lured to participate or who did participate in terrorist or extremist activities, posing a realistic danger, but not yet causing actual damage, subjectively not deeply evil, pleading guilty and repenting; who, according to law, can be exempted from punishment if they agree to undergo training. The third are those who have been convicted and sentenced for violent terrorism or extremist offenses and who, before their release from prison, are judged to still pose a danger to society, such that a People's Court decides according to law that they should be placed in education. Which of those three groups is not being coerced?
    - lucian1900 6y ago
      You’re talking about specifically the subset of trade schools that are part of the justice system, helping people gain skills so they can be later gainfully employed and not need to turn to crime. Is having a justice system considered nefarious coercion in any country? The problem is the conflation with the majority of trade school attendees in Xinjiang, of which there is no evidence they are anything other than voluntary. All countries that care about their workers material conditions offer trade schools with a path to employment.
      - yorwba 6y ago
        > Is having a justice system considered nefarious coercion in any country? The whole point of a justice system is coercion. It is usually considered non-nefarious to reward people for working and to withhold that reward when they do not work; while it is considered nefarious to force people to work and to punish them if they do not work. Simply put, not working should not be a crime. > The problem is the conflation with the majority of trade school attendees in Xinjiang Is there a conflation? It's rather immaterial how the majority is doing when the issue is the treatment of minorities. In any case, I'm curious whether you could point me to any statistics about trade school attendees in Xinjiang.