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There is simply no car that compares if you like tech. And there is no other practical (ie road trips) EV in the US. These stories tend to be outliers, most p

There is simply no car that compares if you like tech. And there is no other practical (ie road trips) EV in the US. These stories tend to be outliers, most people don’t know what a panel gap is and would never think to measure the ground clearance.

miked85 6y ago
> most people don’t know what a panel gap is and would never think to measure the ground clearance. That doesn't excuse poor engineering. You also might measure ground clearance if you can't park your car: " His car has a 12 cm (4.7 in) ground clearance, which will not allow him to enter his parking spot – hence his concern about it. "
foepys 6y ago
What exactly does make Tesla a tech company compared to other car manufacturers? Nearly all car manufacturers have adaptive cruise control somewhere in their lineup - they just don't claim to reach FSD with the currently used hardware. But almost all are actively researching FSD with different hardware. Making EVs doesn't make you a tech company. ICE are even more complicated than electric engines and Tesla doesn't make their batteries themselves. I'm getting strong WeWork vibes from Tesla's claim to be a tech company.
- abc_lisper 6y ago
  I have test driven a few cars before ending up with a model 3. Autopilot really takes the edge off and handles the car with confidence . No other car came close then, and was the only car then providing software updates which would make it even better. Tesla is no wework ..
  - tempestn 6y ago
    I have trouble understanding how autopilot could be relaxing. You have to be constantly vigilant lest it drive you into a concrete barrier or parked truck—yes those events are highly unlikely, but that would just make it more difficult to stay focused. And if I have to be entirely focused on the road anyway, why not just guide the car myself?
    - Godel_unicode 6y ago
      It's relaxing because people have convinced themselves it won't happen to them (which is probably true, experimentally).
    - tshaddox 6y ago
      Have you tried it? I recently got my first car that has adaptive cruise control and “lane-keep assist,” which is essentially what Tesla calls “autopilot,” and it’s really great even with its limitations and flaws. Yes, you need to remain alert, and it doesn’t do everything for you, but it still does some things for you. I’m not sure what’s difficult to understand.
      - tempestn 6y ago
        I have driven a car with lane keep assist and hated it. If I'm getting close to the edge of a lane, it's intentional and often for safety; having the car try to interfere with that is counter-productive. I wouldn't call it comparable to Tesla's autopilot though, as it only intervened in steering when you neared the edge of the lane. I guess you could just let it pinball down the road like that, but I wouldn't want to attempt it. Maybe other cars do it better. Adaptive cruise on the other hand is great, but all modern cars have that. The real issue though is that it's harder to remain alert when the car is effectively doing everything for you... until it doesn't.
        abc_lisper 6y ago
        All lane keep assists are not the same. Tesla’s version drives through curves with ease, not like others which flop around one lane marker to other and may give up pretty easily
        o-__-o 6y ago
        Infiniti’s lane assist doesn’t ping pong nearly as much as others. Newer cars have lane centering now which keeps you in the middle of the lane. Some manufacturers have done the Tesla thing and mapped out public roads like GM SuperCruise Also don’t let the car ping pong, if it loses the lane marking then the car will keep on lane changing with impunity
  - kevingadd 6y ago
    You are literally required to be vigilant while operating an autopilot vehicle, if you're relaxing and letting it completely handle the vehicle that means you're not properly operating your car. It's an assist. Even Tesla's documentation and instructions tell you this.
    - hyperdimension 6y ago
      Sure, just don't call it "Autopilot" then. I know about the comparisons to a plane's autopilot, but when driving you don't have the luxury of minutes to react. The name puts an image of confidence in drivers' minds while failing to deliver. (I don't own a Tesla; I just find they terribly misnamed the feature.)
- kalefranz 6y ago
  > What exactly does make Tesla a tech company In asking that question, my guess is that you’ve never experienced being a Tesla owner. And that’s fair. I’m a Tesla owner myself, for full disclosure. I’ve found that a Tesla is truly a computer on wheels; not unlike an iPhone is a computer in your hand. In many ways, Tesla is a software company that makes their own hardware. Unlike every other auto manufacturer, their software has full and complete control over every aspect of their hardware. Their hardware-software vertical integration is for real. They also have single software releases that deploy OTA to their whole fleet of in-service “devices.” From a software and release engineering perspective, incumbent auto manufacturers are decades behind. > Nearly all car manufacturers have adaptive cruise control somewhere in their lineup I’d argue the difference is that _every_ vehicle Tesla sells today is cable of being upgraded to the latest state of autonomy—just by an OTA software update and/or flipping some feature flags. While the claim of full Level 5 autonomy without lidar is controversial, it’s possible that most Teslas on the road today will be capable of being upgraded to L5 capability via a software update. All that said, the QA issues in those photos are pretty jarring. No excuses there.
  - Godel_unicode 6y ago
    > just by an OTA software update and/or flipping some feature flags Sounds like you might not have "experienced being a Tesla owner". There are a ton of Tesla's which, according to the company, will definitely require hardware updates for full self-driving. https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer They're not a tech company, but they think (and loudly say) they are, and that causes these kinds of problems. Using tech jargon does not a tech company make.
  - ra7 6y ago
    > While the claim of full Level 5 autonomy without lidar is controversial, it’s possible that most Teslas on the road today will be capable of being upgraded to L5 capability via a software update. How can you claim the current hardware on Teslas is capable of L5 when they haven’t even demonstrated L4 capability? Just saying it’s capable for full autonomy doesn’t actually make it so, they need to actually prove it. Also, you (and Elon Musk) talk about Level 5 so casually when all the self driving companies out there strictly claim to aim for only Level 4.
axaxs 6y ago
This is weird to me because it seems much easier for a mfg company(read, all other car makers) to throw cash and catch up in tech, than it is for a tech company(tesla) to nail manufacturing. AutoPilot aside, for now.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- chrischen 6y ago
  Tell that to RIM.
Closi 6y ago
> most people don’t know what a panel gap is and would never think to measure the ground clearance No, most people would just describe this as 'general poor quality'. Six Sigma quality manufacturing is all based on reducing deviation and defects - these are red flags. And although they might not know to check these things, I think if you explained to the average consumer that some cars are 25% lower to the ground, while some are 25% higher, because of general manufacturing inaccuracy, they wouldn't be impressed.

miked85 6y ago

> most people don’t know what a panel gap is and would never think to measure the ground clearance. That doesn't excuse poor engineering. You also might measure ground clearance if you can't park your car: " His car has a 12 cm (4.7 in) ground clearance, which will not allow him to enter his parking spot – hence his concern about it. "

foepys 6y ago

What exactly does make Tesla a tech company compared to other car manufacturers? Nearly all car manufacturers have adaptive cruise control somewhere in their lineup - they just don't claim to reach FSD with the currently used hardware. But almost all are actively researching FSD with different hardware. Making EVs doesn't make you a tech company. ICE are even more complicated than electric engines and Tesla doesn't make their batteries themselves. I'm getting strong WeWork vibes from Tesla's claim to be a tech company.

abc_lisper 6y ago
I have test driven a few cars before ending up with a model 3. Autopilot really takes the edge off and handles the car with confidence . No other car came close then, and was the only car then providing software updates which would make it even better. Tesla is no wework ..
- tempestn 6y ago
  I have trouble understanding how autopilot could be relaxing. You have to be constantly vigilant lest it drive you into a concrete barrier or parked truck—yes those events are highly unlikely, but that would just make it more difficult to stay focused. And if I have to be entirely focused on the road anyway, why not just guide the car myself?
  - Godel_unicode 6y ago
    It's relaxing because people have convinced themselves it won't happen to them (which is probably true, experimentally).
  - tshaddox 6y ago
    Have you tried it? I recently got my first car that has adaptive cruise control and “lane-keep assist,” which is essentially what Tesla calls “autopilot,” and it’s really great even with its limitations and flaws. Yes, you need to remain alert, and it doesn’t do everything for you, but it still does some things for you. I’m not sure what’s difficult to understand.
    - tempestn 6y ago
      I have driven a car with lane keep assist and hated it. If I'm getting close to the edge of a lane, it's intentional and often for safety; having the car try to interfere with that is counter-productive. I wouldn't call it comparable to Tesla's autopilot though, as it only intervened in steering when you neared the edge of the lane. I guess you could just let it pinball down the road like that, but I wouldn't want to attempt it. Maybe other cars do it better. Adaptive cruise on the other hand is great, but all modern cars have that. The real issue though is that it's harder to remain alert when the car is effectively doing everything for you... until it doesn't.
      - abc_lisper 6y ago
        All lane keep assists are not the same. Tesla’s version drives through curves with ease, not like others which flop around one lane marker to other and may give up pretty easily
      - o-__-o 6y ago
        Infiniti’s lane assist doesn’t ping pong nearly as much as others. Newer cars have lane centering now which keeps you in the middle of the lane. Some manufacturers have done the Tesla thing and mapped out public roads like GM SuperCruise Also don’t let the car ping pong, if it loses the lane marking then the car will keep on lane changing with impunity
- kevingadd 6y ago
  You are literally required to be vigilant while operating an autopilot vehicle, if you're relaxing and letting it completely handle the vehicle that means you're not properly operating your car. It's an assist. Even Tesla's documentation and instructions tell you this.
  - hyperdimension 6y ago
    Sure, just don't call it "Autopilot" then. I know about the comparisons to a plane's autopilot, but when driving you don't have the luxury of minutes to react. The name puts an image of confidence in drivers' minds while failing to deliver. (I don't own a Tesla; I just find they terribly misnamed the feature.)
kalefranz 6y ago
> What exactly does make Tesla a tech company In asking that question, my guess is that you’ve never experienced being a Tesla owner. And that’s fair. I’m a Tesla owner myself, for full disclosure. I’ve found that a Tesla is truly a computer on wheels; not unlike an iPhone is a computer in your hand. In many ways, Tesla is a software company that makes their own hardware. Unlike every other auto manufacturer, their software has full and complete control over every aspect of their hardware. Their hardware-software vertical integration is for real. They also have single software releases that deploy OTA to their whole fleet of in-service “devices.” From a software and release engineering perspective, incumbent auto manufacturers are decades behind. > Nearly all car manufacturers have adaptive cruise control somewhere in their lineup I’d argue the difference is that _every_ vehicle Tesla sells today is cable of being upgraded to the latest state of autonomy—just by an OTA software update and/or flipping some feature flags. While the claim of full Level 5 autonomy without lidar is controversial, it’s possible that most Teslas on the road today will be capable of being upgraded to L5 capability via a software update. All that said, the QA issues in those photos are pretty jarring. No excuses there.
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  > just by an OTA software update and/or flipping some feature flags Sounds like you might not have "experienced being a Tesla owner". There are a ton of Tesla's which, according to the company, will definitely require hardware updates for full self-driving. https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-computer They're not a tech company, but they think (and loudly say) they are, and that causes these kinds of problems. Using tech jargon does not a tech company make.
- ra7 6y ago
  > While the claim of full Level 5 autonomy without lidar is controversial, it’s possible that most Teslas on the road today will be capable of being upgraded to L5 capability via a software update. How can you claim the current hardware on Teslas is capable of L5 when they haven’t even demonstrated L4 capability? Just saying it’s capable for full autonomy doesn’t actually make it so, they need to actually prove it. Also, you (and Elon Musk) talk about Level 5 so casually when all the self driving companies out there strictly claim to aim for only Level 4.

axaxs 6y ago

This is weird to me because it seems much easier for a mfg company(read, all other car makers) to throw cash and catch up in tech, than it is for a tech company(tesla) to nail manufacturing. AutoPilot aside, for now.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
chrischen 6y ago
Tell that to RIM.

Closi 6y ago

> most people don’t know what a panel gap is and would never think to measure the ground clearance No, most people would just describe this as 'general poor quality'. Six Sigma quality manufacturing is all based on reducing deviation and defects - these are red flags. And although they might not know to check these things, I think if you explained to the average consumer that some cars are 25% lower to the ground, while some are 25% higher, because of general manufacturing inaccuracy, they wouldn't be impressed.