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And I wish that Linux fans would stop saying use Linux as if that is an answer for the vast majority of PC users in the world. It stinks of elitism on so many l

And I wish that Linux fans would stop saying use Linux as if that is an answer for the vast majority of PC users in the world. It stinks of elitism on so many levels. And yes, I use Linux, but I would never consider putting it on a machine for my mom, or my sister, and nearly anyone else. Linux simply is not a viable solution for so many people.

ogre_codes 6y ago
> as if that is an answer for the vast majority of PC users in the world. The vast majority of PC users don't give a fuck if they "Own Their Hardware" or any other philosophical questions about their computer. They buy a tool and use it. Generally speaking, those tools work just fine for them until ultimately the drive fails or they drop it into a creek while hiking. It's the nerds on HN who bitch about "Owning their computer". Literally the people who should have the skills and knowledge to fix the very problem they are complaining about. If you tried to talk to your mom or your sister about how they don't own their computers they would likely look at you as if you were insane. FWIW, I'm only intermittently a Linux user, mostly I use MacOS.
- im3w1l 6y ago
  They don't complain about "not owning their computer" but they complain about downstream problems.
tluyben2 6y ago
> for my mom, or my sister, and nearly anyone else. Especially my mom, dad, sister and almost everyone else I know use one application on their computer and that is Chrome. My father still works and so does my sister and yet they do not work with or need anything else. Linux works fine for that. Almost everyone I know would not know the difference between an Ubuntu laptop or a windows one as long as the Chrome button ('the internet') is there. Ofcourse this differs if people need native applications (maybe) but I would say that most people would not notice Linux at all. Not because Linux is great (I use it exclusively but I do not care about ux/ui), but because most people do not do so much 'natively' with a computer anymore and hence can switch fluently from Mac to win to lin to ios to Android (and frequently do during the day between some combinations of these) as long as they can find 'the internet' button.
- Osiris 6y ago
  Sounds like a Chromebook.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    Indeed. Arguing that Linux makes a good web appliance does not endear it to anyone who needs more than a web appliance.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
I work in IT, write software, and have a significant number of hobbies centered around computing and I don't even think Linux is a viable choice for me [0]. But there's a lot of Linux evangelists out there who simply refuse to believe there is anything wrong with it for anybody. [0] and belive me, I've tried [1][2]. [1] Some evangelist is typing a response right now about how I haven't really tried. They are part of the problem. [2] I've put together my own distro, written and contributed to open source projects, until sometime earlier this year ran Linux on 4/5 computers I used regularly at home (now down to 1/5), and was even president of a LUG for a while. So shut up about how your grandma uses it as a web kiosk so it must be fine for everyone.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Except I'm not remotely a Linux evangelist. I use a Mac. I didn't suggest Linux desktop is for the masses.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
mixmastamyk 6y ago
1999 wants their argument back. My daughter uses Ubuntu Mate and is quite happy with it. None of the bullshit of Windows ten.
scbrg 6y ago
Nothing is perfect. Everything is a tradeoff. If you want to avoid corporations controlling your computing environment, Linux is perhaps the easiest way to do that. The alternative is to continue letting corporations control your computing environment and... whine about it, I suppose. Do you think it's better to offer no suggestion at all? To not even tell people about their options?
- EvanAnderson 6y ago
  We could also have an option for consumer protections to prevent corporations from exercising some types of control.

ogre_codes 6y ago

> as if that is an answer for the vast majority of PC users in the world. The vast majority of PC users don't give a fuck if they "Own Their Hardware" or any other philosophical questions about their computer. They buy a tool and use it. Generally speaking, those tools work just fine for them until ultimately the drive fails or they drop it into a creek while hiking. It's the nerds on HN who bitch about "Owning their computer". Literally the people who should have the skills and knowledge to fix the very problem they are complaining about. If you tried to talk to your mom or your sister about how they don't own their computers they would likely look at you as if you were insane. FWIW, I'm only intermittently a Linux user, mostly I use MacOS.

im3w1l 6y ago
They don't complain about "not owning their computer" but they complain about downstream problems.

tluyben2 6y ago

> for my mom, or my sister, and nearly anyone else. Especially my mom, dad, sister and almost everyone else I know use one application on their computer and that is Chrome. My father still works and so does my sister and yet they do not work with or need anything else. Linux works fine for that. Almost everyone I know would not know the difference between an Ubuntu laptop or a windows one as long as the Chrome button ('the internet') is there. Ofcourse this differs if people need native applications (maybe) but I would say that most people would not notice Linux at all. Not because Linux is great (I use it exclusively but I do not care about ux/ui), but because most people do not do so much 'natively' with a computer anymore and hence can switch fluently from Mac to win to lin to ios to Android (and frequently do during the day between some combinations of these) as long as they can find 'the internet' button.

Osiris 6y ago
Sounds like a Chromebook.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Indeed. Arguing that Linux makes a good web appliance does not endear it to anyone who needs more than a web appliance.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

I work in IT, write software, and have a significant number of hobbies centered around computing and I don't even think Linux is a viable choice for me [0]. But there's a lot of Linux evangelists out there who simply refuse to believe there is anything wrong with it for anybody. [0] and belive me, I've tried [1][2]. [1] Some evangelist is typing a response right now about how I haven't really tried. They are part of the problem. [2] I've put together my own distro, written and contributed to open source projects, until sometime earlier this year ran Linux on 4/5 computers I used regularly at home (now down to 1/5), and was even president of a LUG for a while. So shut up about how your grandma uses it as a web kiosk so it must be fine for everyone.

ogre_codes 6y ago
Except I'm not remotely a Linux evangelist. I use a Mac. I didn't suggest Linux desktop is for the masses.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

mixmastamyk 6y ago

1999 wants their argument back. My daughter uses Ubuntu Mate and is quite happy with it. None of the bullshit of Windows ten.

scbrg 6y ago

Nothing is perfect. Everything is a tradeoff. If you want to avoid corporations controlling your computing environment, Linux is perhaps the easiest way to do that. The alternative is to continue letting corporations control your computing environment and... whine about it, I suppose. Do you think it's better to offer no suggestion at all? To not even tell people about their options?

EvanAnderson 6y ago
We could also have an option for consumer protections to prevent corporations from exercising some types of control.