4 ms·

Pushing 45 now, having worked in a lot of industries, I say this is bad advice. Most people who want you to talk less and listen more are just trying to control

by mlthoughts2018 6y ago

Pushing 45 now, having worked in a lot of industries, I say this is bad advice. Most people who want you to talk less and listen more are just trying to control you and in corporate landscapes, never ever assume anyone is trying to help you. I wasted a lot of years staying silent, reminding myself that other people know more than me. Actually, all the smart, competent people were the ones being quiet in the first place, and all the people saying “talk less, listen more” like they are life coach gurus turned out to be the overconfident know-it-alls and people with duplicitous motives. The problem is that a lot of young people are smart and have great ideas that more experienced people didn’t have. But because the young people don’t have political capital, the older people need a way to set up political gatekeeping and launder credit for sourcing the ideas from younger people. It’s near impossible to truly tell if you’re dealing with that level of political dirtbag (usually yes) or if you’re dealing with rare good-natured people who want to give you real advice. So in the prisoner’s dilemma of it, young people have no rational choice but to defect and push for their own agendas. And they should. When I meet young people now, I try to remind myself: they need to be heard, they need to talk. I need to listen. I shouldn’t patronize them by saying, “talk less, listen more.” I should presume they are equals, and keep my opinions private if their youthful exuberance causes them to put their foot in their mouth. They need to speak and be heard to grow, and I shouldn’t be set in my ways and miss the good ideas that occur to generations who experienced a whole different world and landscape in their formative years. Their perspective adds to mine, it doesn’t need me to correct it.

harrisonjackson 6y ago
> Listen to your potential new client. Let them speak. Let them feel seen and heard. The post seems to be talking more about from a sales / client relationship development perspective. Your reply seems to be more about internal comms on a team.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  No, the author is pretty clear. They take issue with verbiage they personally hear from younger people. Here is a quote from the article: > “ The first thing I tell them is to talk less and listen more. I don’t know if this is a generational thing or they’re just nervous to talk to me or what, but most of these conversations begin with me getting machine gunned to death with someone’s line of shit right out of the gates. Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang…bang…bang bang bang bang… I’m thinking to myself, “Oh my god, take a breath, kid.” Maybe I sounded that way in my twenties too – being excited, feeling like everyone wanted to hear every thought I had on every subject under the sun. I don’t remember. So I give them the best advice I can think of for building a practice in financial advice and developing client relationships. First of all, I says, “You don’t even know what the f* you don’t know.”” So it does not seem the author is talking about sales / client relations, at least that isn’t the primary issue they raise and the context of when they advise younger people to be quiet and listen is very different than any sales / client relations context.
  - maroonblazer 6y ago
    Literally, the rest of the article contradicts your assertion. He’s talking about client relationships, specifically in financial services. As a counterpoint to your cynical take on internal comms, at 54 I’ve found that treating everyone as a “client” and erring on the side of listening vs talking has paid huge dividends professionally.
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    The context of your quote is someone coming to him for advice, and proceeding to monologue at him. Why would you go to someone for advice, unless you think they they have something of value to say?
jariel 6y ago
There's some insight here but it's a separate subject entirely. In most situations, you learn by listening. The challenge not offered in the article is to 'get them talking' in the first place if they are not natural talkers. Finally - your points are salient on some level, but absorbing corporate schtick is not what this is about. Also, it's too cynical. Corporate schtick is just another form of communication, it's less personal, less direct, but it's also not evil. Young people need to communication, but they will benefit from your experience much more than the other way around.
FrankyHollywood 6y ago
I recognize much of what you say. Worst experience I have is with devs who call themselves 'coach' and know it all. They should be quiet more often. At the same time, I have this junior dev in my team who is very stubborn and never listens. This is very annoying, she can work days on a single small assignment. When I give advise on how the problem can be tackled I see it is just being ignored. So, in these cases 'listen more' is good advise :)

harrisonjackson 6y ago

> Listen to your potential new client. Let them speak. Let them feel seen and heard. The post seems to be talking more about from a sales / client relationship development perspective. Your reply seems to be more about internal comms on a team.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago
No, the author is pretty clear. They take issue with verbiage they personally hear from younger people. Here is a quote from the article: > “ The first thing I tell them is to talk less and listen more. I don’t know if this is a generational thing or they’re just nervous to talk to me or what, but most of these conversations begin with me getting machine gunned to death with someone’s line of shit right out of the gates. Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang…bang…bang bang bang bang… I’m thinking to myself, “Oh my god, take a breath, kid.” Maybe I sounded that way in my twenties too – being excited, feeling like everyone wanted to hear every thought I had on every subject under the sun. I don’t remember. So I give them the best advice I can think of for building a practice in financial advice and developing client relationships. First of all, I says, “You don’t even know what the f* you don’t know.”” So it does not seem the author is talking about sales / client relations, at least that isn’t the primary issue they raise and the context of when they advise younger people to be quiet and listen is very different than any sales / client relations context.
- maroonblazer 6y ago
  Literally, the rest of the article contradicts your assertion. He’s talking about client relationships, specifically in financial services. As a counterpoint to your cynical take on internal comms, at 54 I’ve found that treating everyone as a “client” and erring on the side of listening vs talking has paid huge dividends professionally.
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  The context of your quote is someone coming to him for advice, and proceeding to monologue at him. Why would you go to someone for advice, unless you think they they have something of value to say?

jariel 6y ago

There's some insight here but it's a separate subject entirely. In most situations, you learn by listening. The challenge not offered in the article is to 'get them talking' in the first place if they are not natural talkers. Finally - your points are salient on some level, but absorbing corporate schtick is not what this is about. Also, it's too cynical. Corporate schtick is just another form of communication, it's less personal, less direct, but it's also not evil. Young people need to communication, but they will benefit from your experience much more than the other way around.

FrankyHollywood 6y ago

I recognize much of what you say. Worst experience I have is with devs who call themselves 'coach' and know it all. They should be quiet more often. At the same time, I have this junior dev in my team who is very stubborn and never listens. This is very annoying, she can work days on a single small assignment. When I give advise on how the problem can be tackled I see it is just being ignored. So, in these cases 'listen more' is good advise :)