9 ms·

The author is selling people on living his lifestyle, a lifestyle he gained by telling people how to live his lifestyle. These sorts of bloggers constantly tal

by vertr 15y ago

The author is selling people on living his lifestyle, a lifestyle he gained by telling people how to live his lifestyle. These sorts of bloggers constantly talk about 'changing the world' but ultimately they aren't promoting people to build useful products and services, but to step up and join the blogging wealthy. Are there people making good money blogging? Of course. The problem is in the 'token' people who sell marketing and blogging, but show little promotional ability outside of marketing and blogging. These types of posts attract those who are susceptible to 'magical thinking', that somehow if you motivate yourself hard enough, that you will achieve whatever you want. While some level of motivation is necessary to kick start action, too much motivation is a crippling addiction that turns individuals into self-help cult members who follow every move of their marketing guru.

esmevane 15y ago
I think you'll find that the article is saying: decide on your goals, be determined and work hard to obtain them, and quitcher bitchin'. I didn't discover any mention of magic.
- vertr 15y ago
  I think you missed the context of my comment. This article is a double edged sword. Sure it contains a 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' call to action but the other edge is that they are marketing the exact solution to the problem that they created in the post (that you aren't happy).
  - esmevane 15y ago
    No, I believe that I do get what you're saying. I just don't agree that the message preaches magical thinking. It very clearly depicts a process of deciding on a goal, and focusing your efforts (actual efforts) to obtaining that specific goal. In this specific case, you seem to me, to be off-put by the fact that he hustles with motivational speaking to obtain his goals. I think, personally, that the very hustle is a great example of why he should be listened to - he's very clearly determined and focused. That doesn't mean he's advocating his exact profession, and it doesn't mean he's telling people to sit around and let the cosmos give them gold stars for thinking positively, does it? (Edit: Aside from the blogger relationship, though, I'm curious as to what the article has to do with this site, I'll admit.)
    - vertr 15y ago
      I don't think the post is meant to be just generally motivational, he lays out specific tasks that people should do that align with what he did. He isn't just saying 'go out and live your dreams.' He is saying 'go out and live my dreams.' "You want to quit your job and become a professional blogger? You can. You want to travel around the world, living life to its fullest? You can. You want to dedicate your every hour to helping people and making the world a better place? You can."
      - ChuckMcM 15y ago
        I hate it when I agree with both sides of an argument :-) So on the one hand this guy is clearly in the 'make money stuffing envelopes by selling information about making money stuffing envelopes to other suckers' genre of advocacy. That being said, he was in a place that is probably worse than what the average reader is in and is now much happier with his life now that he has 'taken control of his life.' I read his story and liked how he discovered he was being held back by his own pre-conceptions of how he "should" be living his life. Now that he's doing something he loves doing he's both happier and more successful than he has ever been. Score one point for doing what you love. The cautionary tale is that his 'recipe' won't work for everyone, and probably not for a lot of someones. Writing, like drawing, or programming, or fine carpentry, or any of a number of things takes dedication to learn to do well and hours and hours of practice. If you don't love to write, trying to re-make your life as a blogger is going to fail and fail big. So exhorting people to "Do what I did, be a blogger!" is ultimately bad advice for the verbally challenged. (I guess in that regard he's not helping people but we'll set that aside for a moment) It does also reinforce the notion that one's quality of life is most affected by your attitude about it. I had an opportunity to hear a great commencement speech from Doug Ulman (CEO of Livestrong Foundation) where he very eloquently put that into perspective, his advice to accept that you aren't in control and to live fearlessly is solid advice, regardless of your gifts.
jacques_chester 15y ago
> The author is selling people on living his lifestyle, a lifestyle he gained by telling people how to live his lifestyle. I have referred elsewhere to this phenomenon as "Happy Clappy Capitalism"[1]. Maybe we need a new site -- clappitalism.com -- to keep an eye on them. [1] http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/04/20/happy-clapping-capitalism/ http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/04/20/happy-clapping-capitalis...
- shii 15y ago
  I've always called it and its many nuanced brethren irrational exuberance or the kumbaya effect. Lots of talk of daisies and success that's easy to come by, but little actual action by the audience of posts like these. I'm aware I'm probably using Greenspan's words incorrectly, but I feel it accurately conveys and paraphrases the general idea.
whiletruefork 15y ago
I agree in principle that claiming the path to A is by doing B is generally a pyramid scheme situation. However, this author came across differently because of his specific situation. I read it more along the lines of the Randy Pausch quotation about brick walls keeping us from achieving what we want. 'The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out; the brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough. They are there to stop the other people!'
- vertr 15y ago
  Explain to me how it makes it any better because of his situation? He's selling scammy make money online products. Do the ends justify the means?
  - vertr 15y ago
    It's also important to note that almost every self help guru has a sad story about their former lives, then goes on to tell you how they used their 'system' to pull themselves out of it. This post is a classic example of that type of storytelling.
dennisgorelik 15y ago
Exactly: very impressive motivational speech... yet very dangerous. MLMs use exactly that approach in recruiting.
- blinkingled 15y ago
  There. You nailed it. I was thinking back of my mind while reading TFA - where have I a heard something similar in style to this before?
  - dennisgorelik 15y ago
    I guess my pattern recognition skill is coming from weeding out MLMs postings from my job board.
- yeahsure 15y ago
  A colleague of mine signed up for an MLM a few years ago (He was broke at the time). He put massive effort into it and now makes more than $50K per month pretty much without working. Would I do it? No. Do I recommend it? No. Can it work? Absolutely.
  - dennisgorelik 15y ago
    I don't believe in "pretty much without working" part. I'm pretty sure he's still working pretty hard. Anyway, I see your point and agree with it.
    - yeahsure 15y ago
      As far as I know, he has developed a network of websites (all outsourced) that filter the prospects (they have to go through a series of videos and tests or something along these lines), then those warm leads get in touch with one of his "leaders" which explains the program and so on. If they sign up for it, he has a new person in the downline, recruiting more people for him. Could be untrue, though he's always traveling with his family all over the world and I know his income is at least $50k/mo
duopixel 15y ago
I agree with you on all points. The guy is on top of a pyramid scheme where there's only room for a few. However, it is posible to live a quality life in third world countries. This was the view of an apartment I had in Puerto Vallarta: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmedrano/377695445/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmedrano/377695445/in/photostr.... I shared it with two friends. Price per person? $200/mo. My total expenses were perhaps $1000/mo (five years ago). Today, I'm paying that amount for a tiny apartment in downtown Toronto. Think of it like this: if you have a steady income in USD that can be generated at a distance, your quality of life can be orders of magnitude better.
- dillona 15y ago
  If I may ask, why did you give it up?
  - duopixel 15y ago
    I grew up in Mexico, and I had more interesting professional development opportunities in Spain, and later Canada. I've actually saved enough for a two year runaway in Mexico, which I will do in August to create a MVP. Mexico (or any 'third world country') is a great environment to bootstrap, but not to generate income locally. Speaking frankly, not all is great. When you switch your social context entirely you instantly lose all your friends and the safety net you have living close to your family. There's a TED talk that talks about about how people who win the lottery often end up less happy than they were before winning because of different factors, such as moving to a fancy neighborhood with people with whom you share nothing in common. It feels an awful lot like that, except you don't have millions of dollar to cushion your exile. And this goes for both sides (moving to a "better" or "worse" country).
hasenj 15y ago
He's not telling people to do exactly what he did, that's obviously not going to work; it doesn't take a genius to realize that. He's saying that you can do independent work (aka "indie") and still get a damn good income that may even surpass your "job" income (depends on how hard you work and how dedicated you are). It's not really all that different from what PG writes in his essays. PG is just more specific "do a startup", this guy's post is more general "go indie". I don't think he ever intended to imply it's some sort of "magic"; he clearly says it's hard work and there will be time where you'll want to quit, which is also something that PG says. > While some level of motivation is necessary to kick start action, too much motivation is a crippling addiction that turns individuals into self-help cult members who follow every move of their marketing guru. Same could be said about this community. A bunch of people who follow the PG cult of "quit your job and come to YC and get rich". While some of them do indeed succeed and get rich; the majority don't. (just playing the devil's advocate here)
- vertr 15y ago
  I think he is telling people to do exactly what he did. He has products talking about 'money making' and 'guest blogging', and the conclusions that he draws at the end tell you almost exactly what to do to be like him. Also if you read my comment you will notice I said the people who resonate with these posts are susceptible to magical thinking. I didn't directly say that there is magical thinking in the post, other than he seems to believe strongly in positivity being the key to success. I do agree about HN being very cult like. There is an ideology in play here, if you post things that agree with the ideology you are upvoted, if you disagree with it you are downvoted. The positive reinforcement is right there. Over time users learn what comments will lead to upvotes, and thus they change their thinking to match.
  - Stormbringer 15y ago
    I don't think you even read the article properly, you just went into a knee jerk "OMG ADVERTISING!!! DIE DIE DIE!!!" mode. Quoted for truth: " Every day, I get emails from students who say my advice has changed their writing. Every day, I get emails from clients who say my strategies have changed the way they do business."
c0nsilience 15y ago
"The author is selling people on living his lifestyle, a lifestyle he gained by telling people how to live his lifestyle." Oh, like Tim Ferris.

by vertr 15y ago

esmevane 15y ago

I think you'll find that the article is saying: decide on your goals, be determined and work hard to obtain them, and quitcher bitchin'. I didn't discover any mention of magic.

vertr 15y ago
I think you missed the context of my comment. This article is a double edged sword. Sure it contains a 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' call to action but the other edge is that they are marketing the exact solution to the problem that they created in the post (that you aren't happy).
- esmevane 15y ago
  No, I believe that I do get what you're saying. I just don't agree that the message preaches magical thinking. It very clearly depicts a process of deciding on a goal, and focusing your efforts (actual efforts) to obtaining that specific goal. In this specific case, you seem to me, to be off-put by the fact that he hustles with motivational speaking to obtain his goals. I think, personally, that the very hustle is a great example of why he should be listened to - he's very clearly determined and focused. That doesn't mean he's advocating his exact profession, and it doesn't mean he's telling people to sit around and let the cosmos give them gold stars for thinking positively, does it? (Edit: Aside from the blogger relationship, though, I'm curious as to what the article has to do with this site, I'll admit.)
  - vertr 15y ago
    I don't think the post is meant to be just generally motivational, he lays out specific tasks that people should do that align with what he did. He isn't just saying 'go out and live your dreams.' He is saying 'go out and live my dreams.' "You want to quit your job and become a professional blogger? You can. You want to travel around the world, living life to its fullest? You can. You want to dedicate your every hour to helping people and making the world a better place? You can."
    - ChuckMcM 15y ago
      I hate it when I agree with both sides of an argument :-) So on the one hand this guy is clearly in the 'make money stuffing envelopes by selling information about making money stuffing envelopes to other suckers' genre of advocacy. That being said, he was in a place that is probably worse than what the average reader is in and is now much happier with his life now that he has 'taken control of his life.' I read his story and liked how he discovered he was being held back by his own pre-conceptions of how he "should" be living his life. Now that he's doing something he loves doing he's both happier and more successful than he has ever been. Score one point for doing what you love. The cautionary tale is that his 'recipe' won't work for everyone, and probably not for a lot of someones. Writing, like drawing, or programming, or fine carpentry, or any of a number of things takes dedication to learn to do well and hours and hours of practice. If you don't love to write, trying to re-make your life as a blogger is going to fail and fail big. So exhorting people to "Do what I did, be a blogger!" is ultimately bad advice for the verbally challenged. (I guess in that regard he's not helping people but we'll set that aside for a moment) It does also reinforce the notion that one's quality of life is most affected by your attitude about it. I had an opportunity to hear a great commencement speech from Doug Ulman (CEO of Livestrong Foundation) where he very eloquently put that into perspective, his advice to accept that you aren't in control and to live fearlessly is solid advice, regardless of your gifts.

jacques_chester 15y ago

> The author is selling people on living his lifestyle, a lifestyle he gained by telling people how to live his lifestyle. I have referred elsewhere to this phenomenon as "Happy Clappy Capitalism"[1]. Maybe we need a new site -- clappitalism.com -- to keep an eye on them. [1] http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/04/20/happy-clapping-capitalism/ http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/04/20/happy-clapping-capitalis...

shii 15y ago
I've always called it and its many nuanced brethren irrational exuberance or the kumbaya effect. Lots of talk of daisies and success that's easy to come by, but little actual action by the audience of posts like these. I'm aware I'm probably using Greenspan's words incorrectly, but I feel it accurately conveys and paraphrases the general idea.

whiletruefork 15y ago

I agree in principle that claiming the path to A is by doing B is generally a pyramid scheme situation. However, this author came across differently because of his specific situation. I read it more along the lines of the Randy Pausch quotation about brick walls keeping us from achieving what we want. 'The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out; the brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough. They are there to stop the other people!'

vertr 15y ago
Explain to me how it makes it any better because of his situation? He's selling scammy make money online products. Do the ends justify the means?
- vertr 15y ago
  It's also important to note that almost every self help guru has a sad story about their former lives, then goes on to tell you how they used their 'system' to pull themselves out of it. This post is a classic example of that type of storytelling.

dennisgorelik 15y ago

Exactly: very impressive motivational speech... yet very dangerous. MLMs use exactly that approach in recruiting.

blinkingled 15y ago
There. You nailed it. I was thinking back of my mind while reading TFA - where have I a heard something similar in style to this before?
- dennisgorelik 15y ago
  I guess my pattern recognition skill is coming from weeding out MLMs postings from my job board.
yeahsure 15y ago
A colleague of mine signed up for an MLM a few years ago (He was broke at the time). He put massive effort into it and now makes more than $50K per month pretty much without working. Would I do it? No. Do I recommend it? No. Can it work? Absolutely.
- dennisgorelik 15y ago
  I don't believe in "pretty much without working" part. I'm pretty sure he's still working pretty hard. Anyway, I see your point and agree with it.
  - yeahsure 15y ago
    As far as I know, he has developed a network of websites (all outsourced) that filter the prospects (they have to go through a series of videos and tests or something along these lines), then those warm leads get in touch with one of his "leaders" which explains the program and so on. If they sign up for it, he has a new person in the downline, recruiting more people for him. Could be untrue, though he's always traveling with his family all over the world and I know his income is at least $50k/mo

duopixel 15y ago

I agree with you on all points. The guy is on top of a pyramid scheme where there's only room for a few. However, it is posible to live a quality life in third world countries. This was the view of an apartment I had in Puerto Vallarta: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmedrano/377695445/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmedrano/377695445/in/photostr.... I shared it with two friends. Price per person? $200/mo. My total expenses were perhaps $1000/mo (five years ago). Today, I'm paying that amount for a tiny apartment in downtown Toronto. Think of it like this: if you have a steady income in USD that can be generated at a distance, your quality of life can be orders of magnitude better.

dillona 15y ago
If I may ask, why did you give it up?
- duopixel 15y ago
  I grew up in Mexico, and I had more interesting professional development opportunities in Spain, and later Canada. I've actually saved enough for a two year runaway in Mexico, which I will do in August to create a MVP. Mexico (or any 'third world country') is a great environment to bootstrap, but not to generate income locally. Speaking frankly, not all is great. When you switch your social context entirely you instantly lose all your friends and the safety net you have living close to your family. There's a TED talk that talks about about how people who win the lottery often end up less happy than they were before winning because of different factors, such as moving to a fancy neighborhood with people with whom you share nothing in common. It feels an awful lot like that, except you don't have millions of dollar to cushion your exile. And this goes for both sides (moving to a "better" or "worse" country).

hasenj 15y ago

He's not telling people to do exactly what he did, that's obviously not going to work; it doesn't take a genius to realize that. He's saying that you can do independent work (aka "indie") and still get a damn good income that may even surpass your "job" income (depends on how hard you work and how dedicated you are). It's not really all that different from what PG writes in his essays. PG is just more specific "do a startup", this guy's post is more general "go indie". I don't think he ever intended to imply it's some sort of "magic"; he clearly says it's hard work and there will be time where you'll want to quit, which is also something that PG says. > While some level of motivation is necessary to kick start action, too much motivation is a crippling addiction that turns individuals into self-help cult members who follow every move of their marketing guru. Same could be said about this community. A bunch of people who follow the PG cult of "quit your job and come to YC and get rich". While some of them do indeed succeed and get rich; the majority don't. (just playing the devil's advocate here)

vertr 15y ago
I think he is telling people to do exactly what he did. He has products talking about 'money making' and 'guest blogging', and the conclusions that he draws at the end tell you almost exactly what to do to be like him. Also if you read my comment you will notice I said the people who resonate with these posts are susceptible to magical thinking. I didn't directly say that there is magical thinking in the post, other than he seems to believe strongly in positivity being the key to success. I do agree about HN being very cult like. There is an ideology in play here, if you post things that agree with the ideology you are upvoted, if you disagree with it you are downvoted. The positive reinforcement is right there. Over time users learn what comments will lead to upvotes, and thus they change their thinking to match.
- Stormbringer 15y ago
  I don't think you even read the article properly, you just went into a knee jerk "OMG ADVERTISING!!! DIE DIE DIE!!!" mode. Quoted for truth: " Every day, I get emails from students who say my advice has changed their writing. Every day, I get emails from clients who say my strategies have changed the way they do business."

c0nsilience 15y ago

"The author is selling people on living his lifestyle, a lifestyle he gained by telling people how to live his lifestyle." Oh, like Tim Ferris.