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Allowing cops to commit crimes doesn’t help victim-rights, it creates more victims and more citizens unwilling to assist police. Did you read the article? Pros

Allowing cops to commit crimes doesn’t help victim-rights, it creates more victims and more citizens unwilling to assist police. Did you read the article? Prosecutors didn’t make up the charges against this officer, they have documented video proof. There is no reason to arrest and assault bystanders, none. I believe the vast majority of cops are doing their jobs legally and honestly. But you have to punish and root out those cops who aren’t, or you will never get the public trust necessary to really make a dent in high crime areas.

macspoofing 6y ago
>Did you read the article? I did. ACLU is trying to prevent this program from restarting after a trial run. >or you will never get the public trust necessary to really make a dent in high crime areas. Where is the evidence that 'public trust' is the reason for the high crime rate? What if the causality is reversed ... what if high crime rate is what breeds tougher policing because you know, police are human, and it has to mess you up being exposed to the worst of humanity, every.single.day, working in one of the most crime filled city in the world. > But you have to punish and root out those cops who aren’t Sure, nobody disagrees with that, but to be clear, that won't fix the crime rate in Baltimore.
- valuearb 6y ago
  I was referring to this article about the Baltimore cop arrested for 32 counts of false arrest and imprisonment. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/12/12/an-officer-was-charged-with-assault-bystander-then-prosecutors-took-closer-look-his-past/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/12/12/an-office... Every bystander he harassed or assaulted is going to dislike the police even more, and help them even less. When police detectives go to them for help solving a crime, how often will they refuse to testify because of their distrust of the cops? It’s a fantasy that the solution to high crime areas is tougher policing. You can try to bust all the low level drug sellers on street corners to stop consentual drug use, but some will run. So you violently arrest anyone who runs, but done if those don’t have drugs or are just scared kids. Now those kids and their families hate you. Soon dealers get smarter and only hold cash in their person. So you start frisking everyone out on the street or driving in these neighborhoods and take their cash, using civil forfeiture. But some of those people are honest citizens and you stole their paycheck, or the cash they were going to buy a car with, and they and their families now hate you. You start getting warrants to enter homes of people you are told are dealing dope. Sometimes it’s true, sometimes you find something else to justify it, sometimes they were just regular folks it’s just a mistake. But they all end up hating you for it. Sometimes the drug dealers flush the drugs while you politely wait at the door so you start getting no knock warrants and just burst in the door screaming at them, and shooting their dogs (you know, for safety). Sometimes it’s the wrong address or a false top, and the family now hates you even more, as you killed their dog man. Sometimes the residents are armed and in the shock and confusion think it’s a home invasion and shoot back and you shoot them. If they survive, they hate you. Then one day one of your brother officers is gunned down on the street, during the middle of the day, in that tough crime neighborhood you are “pacifying”. When you roll up there are a hundred residents standing there staring at his corpse, but when you ask all you get is hard looks and “no-one saw nothing”.
  - macspoofing 6y ago
    >It’s a fantasy that the solution to high crime areas is tougher policing. I didn't argue that. I said that tough policing is a natural result of high crime areas because cops are humans and are affected by the environment they are in. I read an article about Facebook and YouTube content reviewers getting PTSD after only a few weeks of work looking at despicable images. Imagine being a cop with decades of experience policing one of the most violent cities on the world, seeing what the worst of humanity does to innocent people, knowing that the next stop may be your last. My point is: there are limits to what you can do with policing in such an environment. Sure .. get rid of all the bad cops you want. File any lawsuits to protect rights of criminals you want. None of that will make the crime go down and safeguard the community.
    - Zigurd 6y ago
      Airline pilots are human, too. We do not accept their mistakes. Accepting racism, cruelty, and violence because those are human defects will not improve public safety.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      Imagine being a cop trying to do your best to treat honest citizens fairly and honestly, and show them that you are there to protect them, and need their help and cooperation to find criminals. Then another cop goes into your neighborhood best, and starts threatening, intimidating, and even assaulting and falsely arresting honest citizens for filming, spectating, not producing ID, or just looking like a suspect they are after. How easy is your job now? Those residents know who the drug dealers and actual criminals are. Your perspective is like saying the US didn’t need Vietnamese villagers help to fight the NVA. I guess we must have won there didn’t we? Lastly Dirty Harry, they aren’t criminals rights, they are our rights.

macspoofing 6y ago

>Did you read the article? I did. ACLU is trying to prevent this program from restarting after a trial run. >or you will never get the public trust necessary to really make a dent in high crime areas. Where is the evidence that 'public trust' is the reason for the high crime rate? What if the causality is reversed ... what if high crime rate is what breeds tougher policing because you know, police are human, and it has to mess you up being exposed to the worst of humanity, every.single.day, working in one of the most crime filled city in the world. > But you have to punish and root out those cops who aren’t Sure, nobody disagrees with that, but to be clear, that won't fix the crime rate in Baltimore.

valuearb 6y ago
I was referring to this article about the Baltimore cop arrested for 32 counts of false arrest and imprisonment. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/12/12/an-officer-was-charged-with-assault-bystander-then-prosecutors-took-closer-look-his-past/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/12/12/an-office... Every bystander he harassed or assaulted is going to dislike the police even more, and help them even less. When police detectives go to them for help solving a crime, how often will they refuse to testify because of their distrust of the cops? It’s a fantasy that the solution to high crime areas is tougher policing. You can try to bust all the low level drug sellers on street corners to stop consentual drug use, but some will run. So you violently arrest anyone who runs, but done if those don’t have drugs or are just scared kids. Now those kids and their families hate you. Soon dealers get smarter and only hold cash in their person. So you start frisking everyone out on the street or driving in these neighborhoods and take their cash, using civil forfeiture. But some of those people are honest citizens and you stole their paycheck, or the cash they were going to buy a car with, and they and their families now hate you. You start getting warrants to enter homes of people you are told are dealing dope. Sometimes it’s true, sometimes you find something else to justify it, sometimes they were just regular folks it’s just a mistake. But they all end up hating you for it. Sometimes the drug dealers flush the drugs while you politely wait at the door so you start getting no knock warrants and just burst in the door screaming at them, and shooting their dogs (you know, for safety). Sometimes it’s the wrong address or a false top, and the family now hates you even more, as you killed their dog man. Sometimes the residents are armed and in the shock and confusion think it’s a home invasion and shoot back and you shoot them. If they survive, they hate you. Then one day one of your brother officers is gunned down on the street, during the middle of the day, in that tough crime neighborhood you are “pacifying”. When you roll up there are a hundred residents standing there staring at his corpse, but when you ask all you get is hard looks and “no-one saw nothing”.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  >It’s a fantasy that the solution to high crime areas is tougher policing. I didn't argue that. I said that tough policing is a natural result of high crime areas because cops are humans and are affected by the environment they are in. I read an article about Facebook and YouTube content reviewers getting PTSD after only a few weeks of work looking at despicable images. Imagine being a cop with decades of experience policing one of the most violent cities on the world, seeing what the worst of humanity does to innocent people, knowing that the next stop may be your last. My point is: there are limits to what you can do with policing in such an environment. Sure .. get rid of all the bad cops you want. File any lawsuits to protect rights of criminals you want. None of that will make the crime go down and safeguard the community.
  - Zigurd 6y ago
    Airline pilots are human, too. We do not accept their mistakes. Accepting racism, cruelty, and violence because those are human defects will not improve public safety.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Imagine being a cop trying to do your best to treat honest citizens fairly and honestly, and show them that you are there to protect them, and need their help and cooperation to find criminals. Then another cop goes into your neighborhood best, and starts threatening, intimidating, and even assaulting and falsely arresting honest citizens for filming, spectating, not producing ID, or just looking like a suspect they are after. How easy is your job now? Those residents know who the drug dealers and actual criminals are. Your perspective is like saying the US didn’t need Vietnamese villagers help to fight the NVA. I guess we must have won there didn’t we? Lastly Dirty Harry, they aren’t criminals rights, they are our rights.