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I disagree. Canada did it along with many others. We have to convince people that healthcare is a basic human right, and it is. I (metaphorically) should not go

I disagree. Canada did it along with many others. We have to convince people that healthcare is a basic human right, and it is. I (metaphorically) should not go broke because I need surgery or any other health service. We need to see the divorce between medicine and profit.

giantg2 6y ago
Not just that it's a human right, but then to what extent that it is. That societal agreement on what treatments should be covered is where most of the contention lies. We could adopt the views of the Amish and it would be relatively low cost, but that would likely raise many objections about "letting people die". https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/20/the-amish-health-care-system/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/20/the-amish-health-care-...
chaganated 6y ago
Do you know any doctors, personally? They aren't kindles. We can't have uighur slaves crank out an infinite number of them on a moment's notice. Best way to get over this "basic right" business is to be a gainfully employed taxpayer with a sick kid in an american emergency room, and have to wait in line behind a slew of 300lb obesoids (mostly on medicaid) w/ (preventable!) diabetic complications. And before someone goes, "but Europe!", I repeat that Europe is only a car or two behind us on the entropy train, and I say this with bitter sadness.
- greenminimalist 6y ago
  I'm married to one who does their level best to be a thorn in the system. When we married, we were polar opposites with regards to medicine. Now, parity, finally. I know many others besides. Some are opposed to anything that would take a penny from their bank accounts. Others, increasingly, see things as I do. Europe has many troubles, but half my family still live in Europe and they report nothing untoward medically other than our shared pandemic misery. In fact, they are normal, everyday people and have already received the vaccine. Not so much here...
  - chaganated 6y ago
    Why stay here then? It is interesting to me how taking on "the white man's burden" to civilize africa and the orient is a passé and cancellable offense, while undertaking it against the Great American Redneck isn't. If Europe is more civilized, and you want civilization, why not leave Bubba unmolested in his own natural habitat?
    - greenminimalist 6y ago
      I could easily go back to Europe. But we are employed here. I did look at Finland and their tech-hiring program a bit back during the pandemic, but they ended it. America is just short-sighted. For all the good things here, there is so much that is simply broken and for no good reason other than "NIH". If I could convince my spouse to move to Finland or Norway, I would do so in a heartbeat, but with 11 years as a doctor here, and with kids... I've been given the green light if I can make it work, and trying I am. I'd like Americans to have access to quality healthcare, great schools, and the lot, but apparently they don't want it because it's "socialist". The percentage of taxes that would be raised is still far less per person than anyone pays monthly for health insurance.
      - chaganated 6y ago
        Everything is connected, our blessings and our curses are joined at the hip, and the average american voter understands these interconnections better than nearly every outsider. Attributing it all to stupid-americans-and-their-prejudice-against-socialism is as much a disservice to yourself as it is to them. I could illuminate a few of these connections here, but I would be swiftly pig-piled and banned, so you will have to discover them for yourself. Good luck! edit: Actually, publish and be damned! We had a great many Germans at a chemical plant in the southeast--always telling us how stupid and backward our country was. UNTIL! the waves of refugees came. Now those same Germans fall over themselves apologizing to us. "We didn't know!"
sbinthree 6y ago
As a Canadian who experienced urgent care in the US on a trip, no one with money would advocate for the Canadian system. The US system is mind blowingly good compared to the Canadian system. If the US could price in the externality of people who aren't covered by charging the wealthy even more, it would be way better than adopting the Canadian system.
- mgh2 6y ago
  Is this whistleblower just propaganda then? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25540015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25540015
- biggermike 6y ago
  You don't even need to look as far as Canada to see what single payer healthcare implementation will look like in the US. Hospitals in the US that disproportionately serve populations on Medicaid/Medicare are notorious for their poor quality and consistent underfunding.

giantg2 6y ago

Not just that it's a human right, but then to what extent that it is. That societal agreement on what treatments should be covered is where most of the contention lies. We could adopt the views of the Amish and it would be relatively low cost, but that would likely raise many objections about "letting people die". https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/20/the-amish-health-care-system/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/20/the-amish-health-care-...

chaganated 6y ago

Do you know any doctors, personally? They aren't kindles. We can't have uighur slaves crank out an infinite number of them on a moment's notice. Best way to get over this "basic right" business is to be a gainfully employed taxpayer with a sick kid in an american emergency room, and have to wait in line behind a slew of 300lb obesoids (mostly on medicaid) w/ (preventable!) diabetic complications. And before someone goes, "but Europe!", I repeat that Europe is only a car or two behind us on the entropy train, and I say this with bitter sadness.

greenminimalist 6y ago
I'm married to one who does their level best to be a thorn in the system. When we married, we were polar opposites with regards to medicine. Now, parity, finally. I know many others besides. Some are opposed to anything that would take a penny from their bank accounts. Others, increasingly, see things as I do. Europe has many troubles, but half my family still live in Europe and they report nothing untoward medically other than our shared pandemic misery. In fact, they are normal, everyday people and have already received the vaccine. Not so much here...
- chaganated 6y ago
  Why stay here then? It is interesting to me how taking on "the white man's burden" to civilize africa and the orient is a passé and cancellable offense, while undertaking it against the Great American Redneck isn't. If Europe is more civilized, and you want civilization, why not leave Bubba unmolested in his own natural habitat?
  - greenminimalist 6y ago
    I could easily go back to Europe. But we are employed here. I did look at Finland and their tech-hiring program a bit back during the pandemic, but they ended it. America is just short-sighted. For all the good things here, there is so much that is simply broken and for no good reason other than "NIH". If I could convince my spouse to move to Finland or Norway, I would do so in a heartbeat, but with 11 years as a doctor here, and with kids... I've been given the green light if I can make it work, and trying I am. I'd like Americans to have access to quality healthcare, great schools, and the lot, but apparently they don't want it because it's "socialist". The percentage of taxes that would be raised is still far less per person than anyone pays monthly for health insurance.
    - chaganated 6y ago
      Everything is connected, our blessings and our curses are joined at the hip, and the average american voter understands these interconnections better than nearly every outsider. Attributing it all to stupid-americans-and-their-prejudice-against-socialism is as much a disservice to yourself as it is to them. I could illuminate a few of these connections here, but I would be swiftly pig-piled and banned, so you will have to discover them for yourself. Good luck! edit: Actually, publish and be damned! We had a great many Germans at a chemical plant in the southeast--always telling us how stupid and backward our country was. UNTIL! the waves of refugees came. Now those same Germans fall over themselves apologizing to us. "We didn't know!"

sbinthree 6y ago

As a Canadian who experienced urgent care in the US on a trip, no one with money would advocate for the Canadian system. The US system is mind blowingly good compared to the Canadian system. If the US could price in the externality of people who aren't covered by charging the wealthy even more, it would be way better than adopting the Canadian system.

mgh2 6y ago
Is this whistleblower just propaganda then? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25540015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25540015
biggermike 6y ago
You don't even need to look as far as Canada to see what single payer healthcare implementation will look like in the US. Hospitals in the US that disproportionately serve populations on Medicaid/Medicare are notorious for their poor quality and consistent underfunding.