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One should look at disability adjusted life years. A 30 year old committing suicide objectively costs far more human life than a 95 year old dying of Covid-19.

by User23 6y ago

One should look at disability adjusted life years. A 30 year old committing suicide objectively costs far more human life than a 95 year old dying of Covid-19. Also, suicide and other deaths of despair are far more socially costly than Covid-19 deaths of people that were going to die soon of something else anyhow.

watwut 6y ago
Why do you assume that suicides are biased toward young healthy people? Young healthy people were in best position to not be isolated even in lockdown, unlike unhealthy people and old people who wont just play computer games for company.
LorenPechtel 6y ago
Most of the Covid deaths are not people that were going to die soon anyway. The last data I saw said an average of more than 10 years of expected life lost. It has been a right-wing deception that they were going to die anyway because they had pre-existing conditions, but most of those pre-existing conditions are things that are only slow killers if at all.
- User23 6y ago
  > The last data I saw said an average of more than 10 years of expected life lost. That isn't just data, it's data plus a set of assumptions. Won't you please further this discussion and share it instead of making vague allegations about right-wing conspiracies? It's well known that Covid-19 is by wildly disproportionately more lethal as age increases[1] and it's also well known that older people on average have less life left than younger people. Also please note that deaths of despair is a broader category than suicide[2]. Someone who drinks himself to death isn't counted as a suicide, even though it's a person taking action that ends his own life earlier than it otherwise would. Alcohol consumption has increased markedly during the pandemic[3]. Caring about 2nd and higher order effects isn't a right-wing conspiracy theory, it's just a sensible, intelligent, and compassionate thing to do. We should expect better than kindergarten tier reasoning from our leadership. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi... [2] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-same-number-of-people-could-die-from-deaths-of-despair-as-have-already-died-in-the-us-from-coronavirus-new-study-finds-2020-05-08 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-same-number-of-people-... [3] https://abcnews.go.com/US/alcohol-consumption-rising-sharply-pandemic-women/story?id=73302479 https://abcnews.go.com/US/alcohol-consumption-rising-sharply...
  - LorenPechtel 6y ago
    Yes, the lethality goes up sharply with age. That doesn't mean people were near death when they got Covid. If the death rate wasn't related to age you would see an average of 40 years of life lost.
jodrellblank 6y ago
> "A 30 year old committing suicide objectively costs far more human life than a 95 year old dying of Covid-19." Only if you assume the 30 year old lives to be 95 and is not going to commit suicide age 31 from a different life stressor event. Unless they are actively helped, taking away one trigger event at one point in their life is not the same as them being saved from suicide until age 95. > "also, suicide and other deaths of despair are far more socially costly" and /more fixable/. Hopeless -> suicide is a pattern that cognitive behavioural therapy can work on. It shouldn't be the case that society has such poor mental health support that "their life fell apart which lead to their suicide" leads to this kind of life or death trade of "who should die to prevent their life falling apart?" instead of "help with the mental health part so they can survive their life falling apart".

by User23 6y ago

watwut 6y ago

Why do you assume that suicides are biased toward young healthy people? Young healthy people were in best position to not be isolated even in lockdown, unlike unhealthy people and old people who wont just play computer games for company.

LorenPechtel 6y ago

Most of the Covid deaths are not people that were going to die soon anyway. The last data I saw said an average of more than 10 years of expected life lost. It has been a right-wing deception that they were going to die anyway because they had pre-existing conditions, but most of those pre-existing conditions are things that are only slow killers if at all.

User23 6y ago
> The last data I saw said an average of more than 10 years of expected life lost. That isn't just data, it's data plus a set of assumptions. Won't you please further this discussion and share it instead of making vague allegations about right-wing conspiracies? It's well known that Covid-19 is by wildly disproportionately more lethal as age increases[1] and it's also well known that older people on average have less life left than younger people. Also please note that deaths of despair is a broader category than suicide[2]. Someone who drinks himself to death isn't counted as a suicide, even though it's a person taking action that ends his own life earlier than it otherwise would. Alcohol consumption has increased markedly during the pandemic[3]. Caring about 2nd and higher order effects isn't a right-wing conspiracy theory, it's just a sensible, intelligent, and compassionate thing to do. We should expect better than kindergarten tier reasoning from our leadership. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi... [2] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-same-number-of-people-could-die-from-deaths-of-despair-as-have-already-died-in-the-us-from-coronavirus-new-study-finds-2020-05-08 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-same-number-of-people-... [3] https://abcnews.go.com/US/alcohol-consumption-rising-sharply-pandemic-women/story?id=73302479 https://abcnews.go.com/US/alcohol-consumption-rising-sharply...
- LorenPechtel 6y ago
  Yes, the lethality goes up sharply with age. That doesn't mean people were near death when they got Covid. If the death rate wasn't related to age you would see an average of 40 years of life lost.

jodrellblank 6y ago

> "A 30 year old committing suicide objectively costs far more human life than a 95 year old dying of Covid-19." Only if you assume the 30 year old lives to be 95 and is not going to commit suicide age 31 from a different life stressor event. Unless they are actively helped, taking away one trigger event at one point in their life is not the same as them being saved from suicide until age 95. > "also, suicide and other deaths of despair are far more socially costly" and /more fixable/. Hopeless -> suicide is a pattern that cognitive behavioural therapy can work on. It shouldn't be the case that society has such poor mental health support that "their life fell apart which lead to their suicide" leads to this kind of life or death trade of "who should die to prevent their life falling apart?" instead of "help with the mental health part so they can survive their life falling apart".