5 ms·

If you were honest and serious with the response, the lockdowns did not need to be longer than two weeks. This would have had minimal psychic toll. You can see

If you were honest and serious with the response, the lockdowns did not need to be longer than two weeks. This would have had minimal psychic toll. You can see right now that the countries that were successful with the virus response like Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Vietnam have much less restricted societies right now and also did throughout the summer. They are all mostly open with mask wearing requirements. They might have some restrictions on stadiums and large indoor gatherings but everything else is going on as normal. You can end the lock downs quickly if you do the lockdowns right. This of course also includes proper government response, such as testing, contact tracing enforcing isolation, having covid clinics, etc. Not the idiotic "see no evil, hear no evil, the virus will go away by itself" policy of the us federal government. Here I should mention that you are also off topic. The cruise ship workers were subjected to much higher psychic stress than usual people. This is mostly due to the cruise companies irresponsible behavior during the pandemic.

nwienert 6y ago
We absolutely don’t know enough to make generalizations about those countries. I know many Vietnamese living in Vietnam. Beyond the much larger spread of previous coronaviruses, different genetics, climate and more, they tell me that their culture keeps these things quiet. The government plays a large role in this suppression. There are whole years of investigation that need to take place before anyone can even potentially make positive statements about what happened. I’m shocked on all sides about how everyone seems to “know” the truth. We have some ok leads, we’re far from answers.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  I agree. I think genetics and the other factors you mentioned might have a major role. Also in the US and EU, PCR tests are done with over 40 amplification cycles, leading to massive amounts of false positives. There is no global standard for PCR and the WHO has even weighed in on these discrepancies. A traveler to Afghanistan shows a city that has few mandates outside of the airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nculZ8xu1wc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nculZ8xu1wc Life is pretty much normal there, because in low-income countries it has to. And when these people actually see and talk to each other about the situation, they can express contradicting ideas and not be locked into a spiral of fear. Int he US, EU, Canada and Victoria, Australia, separating people from one another is having a strong group think effect where no one is seeing things outside of a a very limited on-line or very local bubble. We are looking at the world through a straw, and it's greatly distorting our view of what's actually happening.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - howlgarnish 6y ago
    It's worth remembering that normal life in Afghanistan includes toddlers freezing to death at refugee camps. It's one of the world's poorest countries, and has many problems that are worse than COVID. https://nyti.ms/yb01Z6 https://nyti.ms/yb01Z6
- lazylizard 6y ago
  but wouldnt it be nice if the world could go on with life like the taiwanese or singaporeans?
NickNameNick 6y ago
Even if the full disease cycle was only two weeks, there's often more than one person in a household, and the time it takes to ensure all of them can cross-infect each-other, and go through the full disease cycle is much longer.
jariel 6y ago
"Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Vietnam have much less restricted societies right now " Those are inherently 'rules based' societies though where government also has an incredible amount of power to intervene. If the 'general rules' both administrative and social were enforced in the West, we'd probably have a revolution. It was never about 'lock-downs' over there - it was 'all of the other things' they did. They were way more interventially concientous than us: when you land in Taiwan, they physically check you in your home to make sure you're in quarantine. They give you masks. They follow up. The Koreans do mass contact tracing, they search your Facebook + Social Media. Those are things that Americans in particular would balk at. Paradoxically - Korea and Japan have particularily high suicide rates and my 'unscientific hunch' is that the high degree of social structure and expectations are the driving cause. While they may yield compliant, conscientious people - those who do 'fall of the bandwagon' really do fall off. Taiwan response [1] [1] https://www.asiapacific.ca/publication/secret-taiwans-successful-covid-response https://www.asiapacific.ca/publication/secret-taiwans-succes...
- erklik 6y ago
  > Those are inherently 'rules based' societies though where government also has an incredible amount of power to intervene. Australia had a lockdown. The state I am in had a complete lockdown where our borders were even closed to other states in Australia. Melbourne had the longest, and toughest lockdown in the country. Since late August, the virus has been wiped clean from my state and there is no community transmission. This means that the lockdown was lifted, and businesses allowed to open as per normal except some slight contact tracing procedures in place. The story is fairly similar in rest of the country (except maybe Melbourne which had a second wave and needed another lockdown). While there is a small cluster in North Sydney, it is fairly small and hopefully contained. I go to work everyday, all businesses are open, and economy had one of the most minimal effects. Australia isn't a very "rules-based" society either so a counter-example to consider.
- nl 6y ago
  In Australia we had a very tight 4 month long lockdown in our second biggest city: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54686812 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54686812 It worked. > If the 'general rules' both administrative and social were enforced in the West, we'd probably have a revolution. We didn't.
tinus_hn 6y ago
Ah, the old 2 week lockdown fantasy. Just pick and choose the countries that are doing well and match them to your favorite measure. Be sure to say the measure ‘has to be done right’ but don’t define what is right, so if it fails you can always claim it ‘wasn’t done right’. Beware though, because the situation may change any minute, like in the mask societies of Japan and South Korea. They must have suddenly forgotten how to wear their masks.

nwienert 6y ago

We absolutely don’t know enough to make generalizations about those countries. I know many Vietnamese living in Vietnam. Beyond the much larger spread of previous coronaviruses, different genetics, climate and more, they tell me that their culture keeps these things quiet. The government plays a large role in this suppression. There are whole years of investigation that need to take place before anyone can even potentially make positive statements about what happened. I’m shocked on all sides about how everyone seems to “know” the truth. We have some ok leads, we’re far from answers.

djsumdog 6y ago
I agree. I think genetics and the other factors you mentioned might have a major role. Also in the US and EU, PCR tests are done with over 40 amplification cycles, leading to massive amounts of false positives. There is no global standard for PCR and the WHO has even weighed in on these discrepancies. A traveler to Afghanistan shows a city that has few mandates outside of the airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nculZ8xu1wc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nculZ8xu1wc Life is pretty much normal there, because in low-income countries it has to. And when these people actually see and talk to each other about the situation, they can express contradicting ideas and not be locked into a spiral of fear. Int he US, EU, Canada and Victoria, Australia, separating people from one another is having a strong group think effect where no one is seeing things outside of a a very limited on-line or very local bubble. We are looking at the world through a straw, and it's greatly distorting our view of what's actually happening.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- howlgarnish 6y ago
  It's worth remembering that normal life in Afghanistan includes toddlers freezing to death at refugee camps. It's one of the world's poorest countries, and has many problems that are worse than COVID. https://nyti.ms/yb01Z6 https://nyti.ms/yb01Z6
lazylizard 6y ago
but wouldnt it be nice if the world could go on with life like the taiwanese or singaporeans?

NickNameNick 6y ago

Even if the full disease cycle was only two weeks, there's often more than one person in a household, and the time it takes to ensure all of them can cross-infect each-other, and go through the full disease cycle is much longer.

jariel 6y ago

"Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Vietnam have much less restricted societies right now " Those are inherently 'rules based' societies though where government also has an incredible amount of power to intervene. If the 'general rules' both administrative and social were enforced in the West, we'd probably have a revolution. It was never about 'lock-downs' over there - it was 'all of the other things' they did. They were way more interventially concientous than us: when you land in Taiwan, they physically check you in your home to make sure you're in quarantine. They give you masks. They follow up. The Koreans do mass contact tracing, they search your Facebook + Social Media. Those are things that Americans in particular would balk at. Paradoxically - Korea and Japan have particularily high suicide rates and my 'unscientific hunch' is that the high degree of social structure and expectations are the driving cause. While they may yield compliant, conscientious people - those who do 'fall of the bandwagon' really do fall off. Taiwan response [1] [1] https://www.asiapacific.ca/publication/secret-taiwans-successful-covid-response https://www.asiapacific.ca/publication/secret-taiwans-succes...

erklik 6y ago
> Those are inherently 'rules based' societies though where government also has an incredible amount of power to intervene. Australia had a lockdown. The state I am in had a complete lockdown where our borders were even closed to other states in Australia. Melbourne had the longest, and toughest lockdown in the country. Since late August, the virus has been wiped clean from my state and there is no community transmission. This means that the lockdown was lifted, and businesses allowed to open as per normal except some slight contact tracing procedures in place. The story is fairly similar in rest of the country (except maybe Melbourne which had a second wave and needed another lockdown). While there is a small cluster in North Sydney, it is fairly small and hopefully contained. I go to work everyday, all businesses are open, and economy had one of the most minimal effects. Australia isn't a very "rules-based" society either so a counter-example to consider.
nl 6y ago
In Australia we had a very tight 4 month long lockdown in our second biggest city: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54686812 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54686812 It worked. > If the 'general rules' both administrative and social were enforced in the West, we'd probably have a revolution. We didn't.

tinus_hn 6y ago

Ah, the old 2 week lockdown fantasy. Just pick and choose the countries that are doing well and match them to your favorite measure. Be sure to say the measure ‘has to be done right’ but don’t define what is right, so if it fails you can always claim it ‘wasn’t done right’. Beware though, because the situation may change any minute, like in the mask societies of Japan and South Korea. They must have suddenly forgotten how to wear their masks.