7 ms·

Lockdowns are bullshit. Despair consequences will be felt for decades.

by dkdk8283 6y ago

kiba 6y ago
Lockdowns are not bullshit. They are effective, unless we did a half ass job.
- jrehor 6y ago
  We did a half ass job. Everybody outside of East Asia did a half ass job or less.
  - dkdk8283 6y ago
    East asia is a police state: have you seen how they treated black people? If east asia is the model you want the USA to follow I’m afraid of the politics your generation will bring.
    - sfmike 6y ago
      Taiwan Japan and Korea are police state? Didn't notice this. I noticed some cops helping a drunk guy into a tax. Also helping to find a lost cat. I guess this is what you mean by police state.
      - djsumdog 6y ago
        In South Korea the contact tracing led to people being found who were cheating on their partners. Some committed suicide. Moral questions aside, is that the world you want to live in? I personally don't even use an Android/eyePhone any more to avoid that dystopia.
    - freeflight 6y ago
      Last time I checked no other country locks up more people, at higher rates, in prisons it won't even let the UN inspect [0], than the US does. In no other country is one as likely to end up in prison as in the US. Neither can I think of many countries where police are more heavily armed, literally militarized [1], while killing people at rates that can only be estimated, as there are no state or federal statistics on that. Still doesn't stop some US Americans from seeing the "police state" everywhere, except at home. Even after over ten thousand people were arrested, thousands injured, many maimed, protesting against exactly that police state and its violence that disproportionately affects black people and other minorities. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idUSKCN0WA2B8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idU... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Support_Office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Support_Office
- dkdk8283 6y ago
  Since you didn’t provide additive information I reaffirm lockdowns are bullshit.
- orangecat 6y ago
  Abstinence is effective at preventing STDs and pregancy, unless you're a sinner. Eating less and exercising more is effective at avoiding obesity, unless you're a lazy glutton. A plan that reliably fails when exposed to human nature is a bad plan.
  - frenchy 6y ago
    Abstinence as the primary tool for birth control/STD prevention is stupid because we have better alternatives. If we didn't, abstience would be a lot more popular. We don't have good alternatives to prevent the spread of COVID-19. Edit: this isn't entirely true though, and there is a lot of grey area. For example, correctly masking & social distancing is a good alternative, but only in spaces where people can/are willing to do it properly.
  - Klinky 6y ago
    It sounds like you're saying people who cannot follow lockdown are on par with "sinners" and/or "lazy gluttons", or maybe you're saying some people failing to do something is a good excuse for no one to do it?
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    covid-induced insanity had me laughing maniacally at this comment
- djsumdog 6y ago
  There is literally no scientific evidence they've been effective at all. If you really dig, you find things like the Flaxman, et. al. paper (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2405-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2405-7) which falls apart if you try to apply it retroactively (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.22.20160341v3 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.22.20160341v...) not to mention the huge issues with the methodology (https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2020.580361/full#B1 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2020.58036...) On social media, people pass around pre-prints like this (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.24.20248802v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.24.20248802v...) on the "long COVID" narrative, which uses the mythology of self reporting on online forums. There is zero science on the effectiveness of lockdowns what so ever. the Great Barrington Declaration is a scientific counter to any pro-lockdown arguments as well. Everyone is saying "We didn't lockdown long and hard enough" .. which is just fucking insane at this point. Unless you're an island nation like NZ, there is literally no way to stop a virus that has entered our ecosystem at this scale. It took over 160 years between the development of the Jenner/Smallpox vaccine and its elimination, with a huge 20 year push in the 60s/70s. This thing will be with us for at least a decade or more to come, and we can't continue fooling ourselves into thinking we can just turn off society like gears in a machine with little to no consequences. Humans are not batteries with an on off switch.
  - NickNameNick 6y ago
    People keep saying that lockdown and elimination strategies only work on islands, but I've yet to hear a compelling narrative why that should be the case. The only variations in the effectiveness of a lockdown strategy should be due to - Household size - Compliance levels - Duration Covered population, and population density should be completely irrelevant. You also need a seperate and ongoing strategy to prevent re-introduction, and an outbreak management strategy, but those are seperate concerns. Ideally, if your neighbouring countries/states/whatever were similarly effective, then re-introduction management shouldn't be too difficult (cf 'pacific travel bubble', etc).
    - josephcsible 6y ago
pc86 6y ago
Name a single consequence of "despair" that is felt 20, 30 years later. How many times were you despaired in 2000 that you still feel the effects of today? And how many of them are on the same level of importance as a temporary lockdown?
- dkdk8283 6y ago
  layoffs, evictions etc, unable to eat. I was personally laid off this year due to lockdown bs and changed careers. It pays 1/5th as much but I’m so glad to be out of tech. My monthly burn is negative. I’m subsidizing my new job from savings. Not are all so lucky.
- guenthert 6y ago
  Not sure about 20 or 30 years or "despair" or how it relates to lockdown, but from own experience (only) I can say that prolonged unemployment shakes confidence and makes you cautious taking on large dept / long-time commitment even many years later.
- josephcsible 6y ago
  > How many times were you despaired in 2000 that you still feel the effects of today? And how many of them are on the same level of importance as a temporary lockdown? This is unfair. For a lot of people, these 10 months of lockdown and counting (and the consequences as a result of them) are the worst thing that's ever happened in their lives, so there's nothing equivalently bad to compare it to.
Griffinsauce 6y ago
Bad lockdowns are bullshit. Australian bands are playing full on shows these days no problem because they did/do it with discipline.
- User23 6y ago
  You’re confusing government policy with being an island. Hawaii has the lowest rate in the USA and California has the highest despite the latter having strictest lockdowns in the country. Granted a sufficiently incompetent government can throw away the advantage being an island provides. Looking at you UK.
  - dkdk8283 6y ago
    California presumably has one of the highest compliance rates yet is still one of the worst affected.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - ryandrake 6y ago
      If you're relying on individuals making sensible risk assessments and voluntarily complying, you've already lost the battle. See also: drunk driving and seatbelt use.
  - flukus 6y ago
    You're confusing being an island with becoming one, any nation can be an island if they close their borders. In Australia we had islands inside the island, several states with land borders closed them to the rest of the country and have enjoyed normality since May.
    - mensetmanusman 6y ago
      In principal any nation can become an island. Not in practice.
mrlala 6y ago
Can you imagine how bad everything would have been without the initial lockdown? Fucking hell, think of a city like New York if NOTHING WAS DONE. Subsequent lockdowns would NOT have been needed if people would have listened to basic fucking things like: wear a mask, try not to go out unless you really need to, and keep some distance. But no, people are just selfish as hell and it's making it worst for the rest of us. Doesn't help that you have some certain politicians who actively made people resist doing basic things to help out.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  You do realize the majority of deaths in NYC were due to Cuomo sending sick COVID-19 elderly patients to be sent to nursing homes and kept in the same rooms as healthy elderly people right? Same with Gov Whitmer in Michigan. Janice Dean covers it very well when she reported on how her own family member was killed by Cuomo's orders: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-megyn-kelly-show/id1532976305?i=1000498452028 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-megyn-kelly-show/i... A number of people were killed because of overuse of ventilators. Many people under 40 who were put on them would have likely survived had they not been put on high pressure vents (and they're not used very much today for that reason).
  - mrlala 6y ago
    So your premise is if we had done absolutely nothing we would be better off? That doesn't make any sense. If that were true, when lockdowns stopped the deaths would have stopped or rapidly slowed down, but they certainly haven't.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      In this case, Cuomo killed thousands of people with very bad decisions. Yes, there's a good chance if he did nothing at all, there would have been a lower death count. The WHO is already telling all nations the lockdowns need to end. There is little to no scientific evidence they've done anything at all! So really, they've likely only done harm and zero good.

Lockdowns are bullshit. Despair consequences will be felt for decades.

kiba 6y ago

Lockdowns are not bullshit. They are effective, unless we did a half ass job.

jrehor 6y ago
We did a half ass job. Everybody outside of East Asia did a half ass job or less.
- dkdk8283 6y ago
  East asia is a police state: have you seen how they treated black people? If east asia is the model you want the USA to follow I’m afraid of the politics your generation will bring.
  - sfmike 6y ago
    Taiwan Japan and Korea are police state? Didn't notice this. I noticed some cops helping a drunk guy into a tax. Also helping to find a lost cat. I guess this is what you mean by police state.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      In South Korea the contact tracing led to people being found who were cheating on their partners. Some committed suicide. Moral questions aside, is that the world you want to live in? I personally don't even use an Android/eyePhone any more to avoid that dystopia.
  - freeflight 6y ago
    Last time I checked no other country locks up more people, at higher rates, in prisons it won't even let the UN inspect [0], than the US does. In no other country is one as likely to end up in prison as in the US. Neither can I think of many countries where police are more heavily armed, literally militarized [1], while killing people at rates that can only be estimated, as there are no state or federal statistics on that. Still doesn't stop some US Americans from seeing the "police state" everywhere, except at home. Even after over ten thousand people were arrested, thousands injured, many maimed, protesting against exactly that police state and its violence that disproportionately affects black people and other minorities. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idUSKCN0WA2B8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idU... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Support_Office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Support_Office
dkdk8283 6y ago
Since you didn’t provide additive information I reaffirm lockdowns are bullshit.
orangecat 6y ago
Abstinence is effective at preventing STDs and pregancy, unless you're a sinner. Eating less and exercising more is effective at avoiding obesity, unless you're a lazy glutton. A plan that reliably fails when exposed to human nature is a bad plan.
- frenchy 6y ago
  Abstinence as the primary tool for birth control/STD prevention is stupid because we have better alternatives. If we didn't, abstience would be a lot more popular. We don't have good alternatives to prevent the spread of COVID-19. Edit: this isn't entirely true though, and there is a lot of grey area. For example, correctly masking & social distancing is a good alternative, but only in spaces where people can/are willing to do it properly.
- Klinky 6y ago
  It sounds like you're saying people who cannot follow lockdown are on par with "sinners" and/or "lazy gluttons", or maybe you're saying some people failing to do something is a good excuse for no one to do it?
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  covid-induced insanity had me laughing maniacally at this comment
djsumdog 6y ago
There is literally no scientific evidence they've been effective at all. If you really dig, you find things like the Flaxman, et. al. paper (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2405-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2405-7) which falls apart if you try to apply it retroactively (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.22.20160341v3 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.22.20160341v...) not to mention the huge issues with the methodology (https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2020.580361/full#B1 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2020.58036...) On social media, people pass around pre-prints like this (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.24.20248802v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.24.20248802v...) on the "long COVID" narrative, which uses the mythology of self reporting on online forums. There is zero science on the effectiveness of lockdowns what so ever. the Great Barrington Declaration is a scientific counter to any pro-lockdown arguments as well. Everyone is saying "We didn't lockdown long and hard enough" .. which is just fucking insane at this point. Unless you're an island nation like NZ, there is literally no way to stop a virus that has entered our ecosystem at this scale. It took over 160 years between the development of the Jenner/Smallpox vaccine and its elimination, with a huge 20 year push in the 60s/70s. This thing will be with us for at least a decade or more to come, and we can't continue fooling ourselves into thinking we can just turn off society like gears in a machine with little to no consequences. Humans are not batteries with an on off switch.
- NickNameNick 6y ago
  People keep saying that lockdown and elimination strategies only work on islands, but I've yet to hear a compelling narrative why that should be the case. The only variations in the effectiveness of a lockdown strategy should be due to - Household size - Compliance levels - Duration Covered population, and population density should be completely irrelevant. You also need a seperate and ongoing strategy to prevent re-introduction, and an outbreak management strategy, but those are seperate concerns. Ideally, if your neighbouring countries/states/whatever were similarly effective, then re-introduction management shouldn't be too difficult (cf 'pacific travel bubble', etc).
  - josephcsible 6y ago

pc86 6y ago

Name a single consequence of "despair" that is felt 20, 30 years later. How many times were you despaired in 2000 that you still feel the effects of today? And how many of them are on the same level of importance as a temporary lockdown?

dkdk8283 6y ago
layoffs, evictions etc, unable to eat. I was personally laid off this year due to lockdown bs and changed careers. It pays 1/5th as much but I’m so glad to be out of tech. My monthly burn is negative. I’m subsidizing my new job from savings. Not are all so lucky.
guenthert 6y ago
Not sure about 20 or 30 years or "despair" or how it relates to lockdown, but from own experience (only) I can say that prolonged unemployment shakes confidence and makes you cautious taking on large dept / long-time commitment even many years later.
josephcsible 6y ago
> How many times were you despaired in 2000 that you still feel the effects of today? And how many of them are on the same level of importance as a temporary lockdown? This is unfair. For a lot of people, these 10 months of lockdown and counting (and the consequences as a result of them) are the worst thing that's ever happened in their lives, so there's nothing equivalently bad to compare it to.

Griffinsauce 6y ago

Bad lockdowns are bullshit. Australian bands are playing full on shows these days no problem because they did/do it with discipline.

User23 6y ago
You’re confusing government policy with being an island. Hawaii has the lowest rate in the USA and California has the highest despite the latter having strictest lockdowns in the country. Granted a sufficiently incompetent government can throw away the advantage being an island provides. Looking at you UK.
- dkdk8283 6y ago
  California presumably has one of the highest compliance rates yet is still one of the worst affected.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    If you're relying on individuals making sensible risk assessments and voluntarily complying, you've already lost the battle. See also: drunk driving and seatbelt use.
- flukus 6y ago
  You're confusing being an island with becoming one, any nation can be an island if they close their borders. In Australia we had islands inside the island, several states with land borders closed them to the rest of the country and have enjoyed normality since May.
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    In principal any nation can become an island. Not in practice.

mrlala 6y ago

Can you imagine how bad everything would have been without the initial lockdown? Fucking hell, think of a city like New York if NOTHING WAS DONE. Subsequent lockdowns would NOT have been needed if people would have listened to basic fucking things like: wear a mask, try not to go out unless you really need to, and keep some distance. But no, people are just selfish as hell and it's making it worst for the rest of us. Doesn't help that you have some certain politicians who actively made people resist doing basic things to help out.

djsumdog 6y ago
You do realize the majority of deaths in NYC were due to Cuomo sending sick COVID-19 elderly patients to be sent to nursing homes and kept in the same rooms as healthy elderly people right? Same with Gov Whitmer in Michigan. Janice Dean covers it very well when she reported on how her own family member was killed by Cuomo's orders: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-megyn-kelly-show/id1532976305?i=1000498452028 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-megyn-kelly-show/i... A number of people were killed because of overuse of ventilators. Many people under 40 who were put on them would have likely survived had they not been put on high pressure vents (and they're not used very much today for that reason).
- mrlala 6y ago
  So your premise is if we had done absolutely nothing we would be better off? That doesn't make any sense. If that were true, when lockdowns stopped the deaths would have stopped or rapidly slowed down, but they certainly haven't.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    In this case, Cuomo killed thousands of people with very bad decisions. Yes, there's a good chance if he did nothing at all, there would have been a lower death count. The WHO is already telling all nations the lockdowns need to end. There is little to no scientific evidence they've done anything at all! So really, they've likely only done harm and zero good.