5 ms·

I’m guessing you’re in EU somewhere? If so you should probably mention that, because very normal and humane things like these (and others like healthcare, 25+ p

I’m guessing you’re in EU somewhere? If so you should probably mention that, because very normal and humane things like these (and others like healthcare, 25+ paid holidays, unemployment policies, maternity/paternity leave, etc.) are unimaginable for our HN fellows from the US ;) edit: I’m teasing ofcourse forgive me :) But like I mention in another comment, you have to agree employment in the US is generally very different from the EU with regard to working hours etc.

cmdshiftf4 6y ago
>humane things like these ... are unimaginable for our HN fellows from the US ;) What are you doing about it?
StavrosK 6y ago
All my 4-day-workweek jobs have been in the US. Usually all you have to do is ask.
- rvanmil 6y ago
  Interesting, that is very different from the things one commonly reads about US working conditions.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    I don't think employers would mind "20% less pay for 20% less work" much, but then again I've always had a contracting working relationship due to the fact that I don't live in the US. It might be more complicated if you're an employee.
  - violetgarden 6y ago
    I worked 4 days a week for 10 hours a day for a while. It was really nice. We’d often end up working late anyways, so even though the days were long it still felt normal, but then you also got a three day weekend every week. One of us would take Friday off and the other would take Monday off.
    - giantDinosaur 6y ago
      10 hours a day is a personal nightmare. That's very much not what the best part of a 4 day week is about. Fuck this obsession with junk productivity as measured by hours - some weeks you can get more done in one day than five, but nobody would ever entertain granting such flexibility.
      - violetgarden 6y ago
        I hear you! Flexibility would be the ideal.
0xy 6y ago
If you move to the EU from the US as a developer you'll be taking a 50-80% pay cut to do so. Fresh grads make more money than senior engineers in the EU. London and Switzerland are the only places in Europe with decent salaries.
- rvanmil 6y ago
  You have to take cost of living into account as well if you’re going to compare international salary differences.
  - balfirevic 6y ago
    You do, but the conclusion remains the same.
  - 0xy 6y ago
    A common misconception is that EU somehow works out better because of free healthcare. Fact is, the US is the better option the vast, vast majority of the time even including additional cost of living and healthcare costs. Spending $1.5k on healthcare a month in exchange for double or triple the salary is worth it, by a long shot. This isn't a religious debate, it would be great to be a developer in a friendly and beautiful EU country for me personally, but not if my salary is slashed to the bone to do so. The EU is not competitive in the tech market at all, and especially not for senior level contributors. According to Payscale, Senior Developers in Sweden earn roughly the equivalent of $70k USD. That's the biggest shafting I've ever seen.
    - dalys 6y ago
      I live in Sweden and make $70k / year. Full stack dev. I was recently in the Bay area and the absolutely only thing that is better is the weather. Cities are dirty and filled with homeless people. Infrastructure (roads, bike lanes, walking paths, Internet, 4G, electricity, water) is all worse. Standard of living feels more like eastern Europe in 80s. Traffic is insane. Getting around by walking felt really unsafe. Public transport is pretty bad and outdated. I wouldn`t want to sacrifice the lifestyle we can enjoy for 3 times the money. Free health care is only one tiny thing. For example we just had a baby for which we were invoiced around 130 usd. I wonder how much that would be in the US. Now my wife will be on paid maternity leave for around 10 months, and then I will also take around 10-11 paid months off. I wonder how many dads do that in the US? I would guess the ones that asked for it got fired. After summer, if the corona situation is ok, me and my wife will be off together with the baby for around 3-4 weeks. Not a problem since my wife has 5 weeks of vacation and I have 6-9 (7 for 2021). My sister and her husband are doing the same and together with my parents we are planning a long trip to Turkey. And you accrue vacation days during parental leave. Right now I am also thinking about taking 6 months off as unpaid leave of absence to start my own company, as is my legal right. $1.5k / month was my total cost of living as single! That was owning my own condo with 15 minutes bike ride to Stockholm city center. The rest I mostly used for vacation trips and did 4-5 (one week each) every year. No need to save for unexpected health care bills, your unborned kids college education, grandmas retirement home, that car you need to buy to commute 1 hour to your job etc. That 3x salary comes with a really high price! In reality I would probably not make more than 120k / year in the US though. With that said, I can understand that some people really enjoy spending most of their lives working for the man, and getting a high salary and skipping out on vacations and work life balance. But not for me.
cgh 6y ago
I’m employed by a SV BigCorp and work a four day week.
- GordonS 6y ago
  Are working conditions generally more progressive/sensible in California than elsewhere in the US? I've always had that impression (I'm in UK), but would be interesting to hear in actuality.
  - cgh 6y ago
    Sorry about the slow response. I can’t actually address your question because I work remotely from Canada. However, the four day week policy applies to everyone, including all US employees, so I guess in that respect at least things are pretty much the same for everyone.
GordonS 6y ago
Yeah, UK - updated my OP! I've spent a little time in the US in the past with work, mainly in Texas, and the hours everyone worked were crazy - 60h weeks with unpaid overtime seemed to be the norm. US is a big place though, and with my limited knowledge I'd expect places like CA to be more progressive, sensible even.

cmdshiftf4 6y ago

>humane things like these ... are unimaginable for our HN fellows from the US ;) What are you doing about it?

StavrosK 6y ago

All my 4-day-workweek jobs have been in the US. Usually all you have to do is ask.

rvanmil 6y ago
Interesting, that is very different from the things one commonly reads about US working conditions.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  I don't think employers would mind "20% less pay for 20% less work" much, but then again I've always had a contracting working relationship due to the fact that I don't live in the US. It might be more complicated if you're an employee.
- violetgarden 6y ago
  I worked 4 days a week for 10 hours a day for a while. It was really nice. We’d often end up working late anyways, so even though the days were long it still felt normal, but then you also got a three day weekend every week. One of us would take Friday off and the other would take Monday off.
  - giantDinosaur 6y ago
    10 hours a day is a personal nightmare. That's very much not what the best part of a 4 day week is about. Fuck this obsession with junk productivity as measured by hours - some weeks you can get more done in one day than five, but nobody would ever entertain granting such flexibility.
    - violetgarden 6y ago
      I hear you! Flexibility would be the ideal.

0xy 6y ago

If you move to the EU from the US as a developer you'll be taking a 50-80% pay cut to do so. Fresh grads make more money than senior engineers in the EU. London and Switzerland are the only places in Europe with decent salaries.

rvanmil 6y ago
You have to take cost of living into account as well if you’re going to compare international salary differences.
- balfirevic 6y ago
  You do, but the conclusion remains the same.
- 0xy 6y ago
  A common misconception is that EU somehow works out better because of free healthcare. Fact is, the US is the better option the vast, vast majority of the time even including additional cost of living and healthcare costs. Spending $1.5k on healthcare a month in exchange for double or triple the salary is worth it, by a long shot. This isn't a religious debate, it would be great to be a developer in a friendly and beautiful EU country for me personally, but not if my salary is slashed to the bone to do so. The EU is not competitive in the tech market at all, and especially not for senior level contributors. According to Payscale, Senior Developers in Sweden earn roughly the equivalent of $70k USD. That's the biggest shafting I've ever seen.
  - dalys 6y ago
    I live in Sweden and make $70k / year. Full stack dev. I was recently in the Bay area and the absolutely only thing that is better is the weather. Cities are dirty and filled with homeless people. Infrastructure (roads, bike lanes, walking paths, Internet, 4G, electricity, water) is all worse. Standard of living feels more like eastern Europe in 80s. Traffic is insane. Getting around by walking felt really unsafe. Public transport is pretty bad and outdated. I wouldn`t want to sacrifice the lifestyle we can enjoy for 3 times the money. Free health care is only one tiny thing. For example we just had a baby for which we were invoiced around 130 usd. I wonder how much that would be in the US. Now my wife will be on paid maternity leave for around 10 months, and then I will also take around 10-11 paid months off. I wonder how many dads do that in the US? I would guess the ones that asked for it got fired. After summer, if the corona situation is ok, me and my wife will be off together with the baby for around 3-4 weeks. Not a problem since my wife has 5 weeks of vacation and I have 6-9 (7 for 2021). My sister and her husband are doing the same and together with my parents we are planning a long trip to Turkey. And you accrue vacation days during parental leave. Right now I am also thinking about taking 6 months off as unpaid leave of absence to start my own company, as is my legal right. $1.5k / month was my total cost of living as single! That was owning my own condo with 15 minutes bike ride to Stockholm city center. The rest I mostly used for vacation trips and did 4-5 (one week each) every year. No need to save for unexpected health care bills, your unborned kids college education, grandmas retirement home, that car you need to buy to commute 1 hour to your job etc. That 3x salary comes with a really high price! In reality I would probably not make more than 120k / year in the US though. With that said, I can understand that some people really enjoy spending most of their lives working for the man, and getting a high salary and skipping out on vacations and work life balance. But not for me.

cgh 6y ago

I’m employed by a SV BigCorp and work a four day week.

GordonS 6y ago
Are working conditions generally more progressive/sensible in California than elsewhere in the US? I've always had that impression (I'm in UK), but would be interesting to hear in actuality.
- cgh 6y ago
  Sorry about the slow response. I can’t actually address your question because I work remotely from Canada. However, the four day week policy applies to everyone, including all US employees, so I guess in that respect at least things are pretty much the same for everyone.

GordonS 6y ago

Yeah, UK - updated my OP! I've spent a little time in the US in the past with work, mainly in Texas, and the hours everyone worked were crazy - 60h weeks with unpaid overtime seemed to be the norm. US is a big place though, and with my limited knowledge I'd expect places like CA to be more progressive, sensible even.