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Here are some reasons. I'm not familiar enough with aircraft to argue either way though "Is China’s ARJ21 Just A MD-80 Copy Or Is It The Beginning Of China’s R

Here are some reasons. I'm not familiar enough with aircraft to argue either way though "Is China’s ARJ21 Just A MD-80 Copy Or Is It The Beginning Of China’s Rise In Commercial Aviation?" "The ARJ21 is partially built on specs from the old MD80, thanks to the presence of U.S. manufacturers in China. McDonnell Douglas was operating an MD80 manufacturing facility in Shaghai prior to its merger with Boeing, thanks to a lucrative deal inked in the early 90s. During this time period, presses and other parts were shipped from the United States to the Douglas facility. This gave the Chinese access to Western technology. Once Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas, production of the MD80 ceased, marking the end of an era. After abandoning the final MD80 and MD90 assembly lines in China after about 30 frames, Aviation Industrial Company inherited McDonnell Douglas tooling." "It did not take long before China was announcing it’s “new” regional airliner project, unveiling a design that was eerily similar to the MD80 design. COMAC officials in Shanghai vehemently defend the ARJ21 as an original design. However, despite COMAC’s protests to the contrary, it is commonly accepted that the ARJ21 is fundamentally a redesign of the DC9. " https://www.avgeekery.com/is-chinas-arj21-just-a-md-80-copy-or-is-it-the-beginning-of-chinas-rise-in-commercial-aviation/ https://www.avgeekery.com/is-chinas-arj21-just-a-md-80-copy-...

nine_k 6y ago
This is normal. Everyone learns by copying. Look at this as at completing a tutorial. What's interesting is the possible next steps building upon the experience gained.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  The big question is can they since Xi has come to power? imo Xi is regressing China back to Mao style centralization. Centralization has big costs such as severely stunting creativity.
  - nine_k 6y ago
    Here's the chance for the US manufacturing to catch up!
    - bfieidhbrjr 6y ago
      Myth. US manufacturing never went away, US manufacturing JOBS went away. Automation.
      - blackrock 6y ago
        It’s easier to sell the fear of some foreign boogeyman, by claiming that foreigners took your jobs away. As opposed to robots that made your job obsolete. Hey! Vote for me! I’ll bring those jobs back home! Sound familiar?
      - nine_k 6y ago
        I buy numerous electronic devices, from laptops down to simple PWM dimmers. Very few of them are not made in China, even fewer proudly made in the US. I would gladly pay 25% more for devices made on US soil by US robots, but so far the supply of such is pretty limited at best.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    This is the kind of stuff people post who get their information about China exclusively from American think tanks. I've worked in China and been in the country multiple times over the last few years. In Mao's times you had to carry the little red book in your pocket, were put into a factory or lined up against the wall. Today foreigners can go to the country, start a business and you can work where you want. Over the last five years in particular the situation for businesses has gotten better because the courts actually have started to function and address stuff like IP claims. Still slow for foreign business in particular, but if you think modern China, one of the world's most integrated economies, is comparable to the Mao era I truly don't know what to tell you. China is also, ironically enough, probably one of the most fiscally decentralized economies on the planet. If you look at the degree of economic autonomy regions have, you won't find it really anywhere else.
    - chaostheory 6y ago
      > This is the kind of stuff people post who get their information about China exclusively from American think tanks. I've worked in China and been in the country multiple times over the last few years. I'm Chinese. I still have family there. > In Mao's times you had to carry the little red book in your pocket, were put into a factory or lined up against the wall. This is funny because Xi is emulating Mao. Instead of a red book, Xi has a yellow book. > Today foreigners can go to the country, start a business and you can work where you want. Over the last five years in particular the situation for businesses has gotten better because the courts actually have started to function and address stuff like IP claims. Still slow for foreign business in particular, but if you think modern China, one of the world's most integrated economies, is comparable to the Mao era I truly don't know what to tell you. If you know enough about history, the credit for opening up China to the West goes to Deng Xiaoping and not Xi. Also you're talking past tense. In the present, foreigners are being squeezed out. > China is also, ironically enough, probably one of the most fiscally decentralized economies on the planet. If you look at the degree of economic autonomy regions have, you won't find it really anywhere else. I'm not sure what you're reading, but a good percentage of companies are either state sponsored or state owned. Still, you weren't completely off. Continued decentralization of the economy was the trend before Xi, but Xi is reversing it now. I'm speaking of the near future and not the past. What you've written was largely true a few years ago but not so much now or the near future.
chillacy 6y ago
You should see how Toyota got started. They aren't exactly ashamed of the fact that they reverse engineered a Chevrolet, its displayed quite proudly in their factory museum.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  You're right. Many Japanese products started out as copies of products from other companies in the West. However, within a few years, those same Japanese companies were producing original designs with no derivatives of foreign products. Has China gotten to that point yet? imo, it's really hard to achieve when you have a more collectivist culture vs an individualistic one that's ruled by an authoritarian government.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    Japan and Korea have collectivist cultures and made that leap in the past 50 years. Singapore has an authoritarian government and also managed the leap. Has China gotten to that point yet for planes? No, they clearly just started. But they're clearly there for some industries like electronics where Shenzen is the place to be if you're building hardware startups.
    - chaostheory 6y ago
      > Japan and Korea have collectivist cultures and made that leap in the past 50 years. Singapore has an authoritarian government and also managed the leap. Japan and South Korea are both democratic republics. South Korea's economic seemed to transform overnight, once they transitioned from a dictatorship into a democratic republic. Like it or not, the lack of free speech has an economic cost. > Singapore has an authoritarian government and also managed the leap. Isn't Singapore more or less a democratic republic now? Singapore is also able to mitigate their own lack of creativity with immigration. I do not believe China has the same views regarding foreigners. I view Singapore more as an Asian Switzerland than a tech leader anyways. I also do not believe that Singapore's leaders believe in Mao style centralist control (of the economy at least) > Has China gotten to that point yet for planes? No, they clearly just started. They've been copying Russian aircraft for a while now. They haven't "just started". Before Xi, China was slowly moving in the right direction for global dominance. China under Xi is moving backwards.

nine_k 6y ago

This is normal. Everyone learns by copying. Look at this as at completing a tutorial. What's interesting is the possible next steps building upon the experience gained.

chaostheory 6y ago
The big question is can they since Xi has come to power? imo Xi is regressing China back to Mao style centralization. Centralization has big costs such as severely stunting creativity.
- nine_k 6y ago
  Here's the chance for the US manufacturing to catch up!
  - bfieidhbrjr 6y ago
    Myth. US manufacturing never went away, US manufacturing JOBS went away. Automation.
    - blackrock 6y ago
      It’s easier to sell the fear of some foreign boogeyman, by claiming that foreigners took your jobs away. As opposed to robots that made your job obsolete. Hey! Vote for me! I’ll bring those jobs back home! Sound familiar?
    - nine_k 6y ago
      I buy numerous electronic devices, from laptops down to simple PWM dimmers. Very few of them are not made in China, even fewer proudly made in the US. I would gladly pay 25% more for devices made on US soil by US robots, but so far the supply of such is pretty limited at best.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  This is the kind of stuff people post who get their information about China exclusively from American think tanks. I've worked in China and been in the country multiple times over the last few years. In Mao's times you had to carry the little red book in your pocket, were put into a factory or lined up against the wall. Today foreigners can go to the country, start a business and you can work where you want. Over the last five years in particular the situation for businesses has gotten better because the courts actually have started to function and address stuff like IP claims. Still slow for foreign business in particular, but if you think modern China, one of the world's most integrated economies, is comparable to the Mao era I truly don't know what to tell you. China is also, ironically enough, probably one of the most fiscally decentralized economies on the planet. If you look at the degree of economic autonomy regions have, you won't find it really anywhere else.
  - chaostheory 6y ago
    > This is the kind of stuff people post who get their information about China exclusively from American think tanks. I've worked in China and been in the country multiple times over the last few years. I'm Chinese. I still have family there. > In Mao's times you had to carry the little red book in your pocket, were put into a factory or lined up against the wall. This is funny because Xi is emulating Mao. Instead of a red book, Xi has a yellow book. > Today foreigners can go to the country, start a business and you can work where you want. Over the last five years in particular the situation for businesses has gotten better because the courts actually have started to function and address stuff like IP claims. Still slow for foreign business in particular, but if you think modern China, one of the world's most integrated economies, is comparable to the Mao era I truly don't know what to tell you. If you know enough about history, the credit for opening up China to the West goes to Deng Xiaoping and not Xi. Also you're talking past tense. In the present, foreigners are being squeezed out. > China is also, ironically enough, probably one of the most fiscally decentralized economies on the planet. If you look at the degree of economic autonomy regions have, you won't find it really anywhere else. I'm not sure what you're reading, but a good percentage of companies are either state sponsored or state owned. Still, you weren't completely off. Continued decentralization of the economy was the trend before Xi, but Xi is reversing it now. I'm speaking of the near future and not the past. What you've written was largely true a few years ago but not so much now or the near future.

chillacy 6y ago

You should see how Toyota got started. They aren't exactly ashamed of the fact that they reverse engineered a Chevrolet, its displayed quite proudly in their factory museum.

chaostheory 6y ago
You're right. Many Japanese products started out as copies of products from other companies in the West. However, within a few years, those same Japanese companies were producing original designs with no derivatives of foreign products. Has China gotten to that point yet? imo, it's really hard to achieve when you have a more collectivist culture vs an individualistic one that's ruled by an authoritarian government.
- chillacy 6y ago
  Japan and Korea have collectivist cultures and made that leap in the past 50 years. Singapore has an authoritarian government and also managed the leap. Has China gotten to that point yet for planes? No, they clearly just started. But they're clearly there for some industries like electronics where Shenzen is the place to be if you're building hardware startups.
  - chaostheory 6y ago
    > Japan and Korea have collectivist cultures and made that leap in the past 50 years. Singapore has an authoritarian government and also managed the leap. Japan and South Korea are both democratic republics. South Korea's economic seemed to transform overnight, once they transitioned from a dictatorship into a democratic republic. Like it or not, the lack of free speech has an economic cost. > Singapore has an authoritarian government and also managed the leap. Isn't Singapore more or less a democratic republic now? Singapore is also able to mitigate their own lack of creativity with immigration. I do not believe China has the same views regarding foreigners. I view Singapore more as an Asian Switzerland than a tech leader anyways. I also do not believe that Singapore's leaders believe in Mao style centralist control (of the economy at least) > Has China gotten to that point yet for planes? No, they clearly just started. They've been copying Russian aircraft for a while now. They haven't "just started". Before Xi, China was slowly moving in the right direction for global dominance. China under Xi is moving backwards.