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> Walmart and Target will jump ahead. Actually, I think it's D2C that will jump ahead. The problem with Walmart and Target is they either (a) have limited bran

by mbesto 6y ago

> Walmart and Target will jump ahead. Actually, I think it's D2C that will jump ahead. The problem with Walmart and Target is they either (a) have limited brand selection (target) or (b) they dilute themselves so much to compete with Amazon that they eventually become Amazon (Walmart).

coldpie 6y ago
Limited brand selection is actually a benefit. I don't want to spend an hour flipping through shitty USB-C cables to find the one that won't nuke my device. I want to pay the buyer at the retailer a few cents to do that for me.
- zucked 6y ago
  You're just shuffling the effort of finding a good quality cable upstream to finding a good quality retailer.
  - fuzxi 6y ago
    Well, yes. The difference is that once you find a trusted retailer, you don't need to put in the same effort every time you need to buy something. You just trust them to have vetted their products for you.
  - KirillPanov 6y ago
    That's okay. I use retailers way more often than I buy cables. Find a good retailer and you can buy several products from them over time, not just one.
ethbr0 6y ago
I dunno. I don't think anyone actually wants D2C, for rare-purchase (ie the mass majority of goods). It's one thing if the brand has an ongoing relationship with its customers, but nobody wants the burden of dealing with 1,000 slightly different processes for ordering toilet paper. That's the inherent value of Paypal et al. -- abstracting diversity on one side into a standard interface on the customer side.
- mbesto 6y ago
  > It's one thing if the brand has an ongoing relationship with its customers, but nobody wants the burden of dealing with 1,000 slightly different processes for ordering toilet paper. That's the inherent value of Paypal et al. -- abstracting diversity on one side into a standard interface on the customer side. I guess you've never ordered something from a Shopify based store then?
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    Shopify is Stripe + Ruby. Same strategic idea as PayPal Point being: D2C doesn't solve the trust problem in a scaleable way, except for repeat purchases
    - OJFord 6y ago
      Are you calling anything that uses PayPal/Stripe/Shopify not D2C?
    - mbesto 6y ago
      > Shopify is Stripe + Ruby. What on earth does their payment processor and tech choice have to do with a direct to consumer model? I'm talking about the features for the consumer when they shop on a shopify based store. Trust doesn't scale naturally. That's the point that the GP comment was making. What we saw with Amazon is that bundling[0] works and can scale, but once it reaches that point and trust erodes, then unbundling becomes more appealing to the consumer. Shopify has struck an interesting middle ground. Lots of the features that make the bundle attractive (one login, saved CC/details, etc.) are baked into Shopify stores. It'll be interesting to see if Shopify rolls out some sort of "Fulfilled by Shopify" and then a "Prime" because then the consumer can ensure quick/free delivery without dealing with the bazaar that is Amazon. [0] - https://a16z.com/2014/08/15/a16z-podcast-the-topic-thats-lasted-the-entire-history-of-computing-bundling-and-unbundling/ https://a16z.com/2014/08/15/a16z-podcast-the-topic-thats-las...
      - ethbr0 6y ago
        The Shopify features you outlined are the "how", but not the "why". As in, why would I buy from a Shopify store, if an equivalent product were offered by a bundler? 1,000,000 stores using Shopify are effectively the same as 1,000,000 products on Amazon, only less convenient. I think the overall takeaway is that trust doesn't scale to Amazon-now-size: i.e. one of the biggest retail companies on the planet. What it did scale to (and very well) was Amazon-1995-2010-size (eg Etsy or eBay), and there's a lot of size between D2C and those variants of Amazon. I'm open for convincing, but I don't see a path to "D2C eats the world," when for relatively modest amounts of capital one could create a smaller, right-size Amazon that could bundle and dominate.

by mbesto 6y ago

coldpie 6y ago

Limited brand selection is actually a benefit. I don't want to spend an hour flipping through shitty USB-C cables to find the one that won't nuke my device. I want to pay the buyer at the retailer a few cents to do that for me.

zucked 6y ago
You're just shuffling the effort of finding a good quality cable upstream to finding a good quality retailer.
- fuzxi 6y ago
  Well, yes. The difference is that once you find a trusted retailer, you don't need to put in the same effort every time you need to buy something. You just trust them to have vetted their products for you.
- KirillPanov 6y ago
  That's okay. I use retailers way more often than I buy cables. Find a good retailer and you can buy several products from them over time, not just one.

ethbr0 6y ago

I dunno. I don't think anyone actually wants D2C, for rare-purchase (ie the mass majority of goods). It's one thing if the brand has an ongoing relationship with its customers, but nobody wants the burden of dealing with 1,000 slightly different processes for ordering toilet paper. That's the inherent value of Paypal et al. -- abstracting diversity on one side into a standard interface on the customer side.

mbesto 6y ago
> It's one thing if the brand has an ongoing relationship with its customers, but nobody wants the burden of dealing with 1,000 slightly different processes for ordering toilet paper. That's the inherent value of Paypal et al. -- abstracting diversity on one side into a standard interface on the customer side. I guess you've never ordered something from a Shopify based store then?
- ethbr0 6y ago
  Shopify is Stripe + Ruby. Same strategic idea as PayPal Point being: D2C doesn't solve the trust problem in a scaleable way, except for repeat purchases
  - OJFord 6y ago
    Are you calling anything that uses PayPal/Stripe/Shopify not D2C?
  - mbesto 6y ago
    > Shopify is Stripe + Ruby. What on earth does their payment processor and tech choice have to do with a direct to consumer model? I'm talking about the features for the consumer when they shop on a shopify based store. Trust doesn't scale naturally. That's the point that the GP comment was making. What we saw with Amazon is that bundling[0] works and can scale, but once it reaches that point and trust erodes, then unbundling becomes more appealing to the consumer. Shopify has struck an interesting middle ground. Lots of the features that make the bundle attractive (one login, saved CC/details, etc.) are baked into Shopify stores. It'll be interesting to see if Shopify rolls out some sort of "Fulfilled by Shopify" and then a "Prime" because then the consumer can ensure quick/free delivery without dealing with the bazaar that is Amazon. [0] - https://a16z.com/2014/08/15/a16z-podcast-the-topic-thats-lasted-the-entire-history-of-computing-bundling-and-unbundling/ https://a16z.com/2014/08/15/a16z-podcast-the-topic-thats-las...
    - ethbr0 6y ago
      The Shopify features you outlined are the "how", but not the "why". As in, why would I buy from a Shopify store, if an equivalent product were offered by a bundler? 1,000,000 stores using Shopify are effectively the same as 1,000,000 products on Amazon, only less convenient. I think the overall takeaway is that trust doesn't scale to Amazon-now-size: i.e. one of the biggest retail companies on the planet. What it did scale to (and very well) was Amazon-1995-2010-size (eg Etsy or eBay), and there's a lot of size between D2C and those variants of Amazon. I'm open for convincing, but I don't see a path to "D2C eats the world," when for relatively modest amounts of capital one could create a smaller, right-size Amazon that could bundle and dominate.