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I find it weird that nobody seems to talk about the national security implications of self-driving cars. Imagine the Russian cyber attack we just experienced ha

I find it weird that nobody seems to talk about the national security implications of self-driving cars. Imagine the Russian cyber attack we just experienced happening on millions of self-driving cars...

xmodem 6y ago
To be fair with the amount of computer control and always-online features in current cars, this is already a huge risk.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
Why would a state actor do this? It's a clear declaration of war, and probably wouldn't kill more people than suddenly launching missiles. Even if they could somewhat hide it, the US is prone to retaliate on fairly flimsy pretexts. There may be some terrorism risk, but any truly terrifying scenario requires a multitude of incredibly stupid design choices. Like constant internet connection, remote updates, no manual override, and a single widespread system. Hacking stoplights is roughly as scary.
- tgv 6y ago
  It will cripple a country and its economy.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    So will bombs edit particularly as an attack on self driving cars would be an intentional targeting of civilians, and would likely be considered similar to using chemical weapons.
    - tgv 6y ago
      I think people have considered the national security implications of bombs. > particularly as an attack on self driving cars would be an intentional targeting of civilians Except it obviously isn't an attack on civilians.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        >Except it obviously isn't an attack on civilians It's not obvious. There are two methods they could attack. Force cars to make drive dangerously, which is a clear attack on civilians. Or halt all cars, which wouldn't be but would require incredibly dumb design choices in the cars. I assumed the first, and I guess you picture the second.
        tgv 6y ago
        Your first option is way more devious than anything I had imagined, that's true, but I'm not convinced it would warrant toe to toe nuclear combat with the Ruskies, to quote Dr. Strangelove (or rather Major Kong in that movie). I'd expect something along the line of strict economic embargo, with all sorts of shady people making a lucrative business out of it.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    If you do that we will launch missiles. You will not survive the attempt. See, this is the thing with stuff like this. "You can't prove it!" doesn't work. If a Russian terrorist cell (state sponsored or not) did this to American vehicles on the road, Putin will be on the phone begging to not be blown up. The leaders of a dozen countries will be on the phone begging us not to blow him up. It's like America's power supply. Notoriously easy to destroy, but if you do destroy it, hell will rain down upon you. Because it turns out the devices that make the peace don't operate like the devices that operate in the peace. So you can't break them that easily.
    - tgv 6y ago
      So you think cars are safe because the US president will nuke Russia? That's borderline trolling.
errantspark 6y ago
This is already a risk with normal cars. https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/ https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig...

xmodem 6y ago

To be fair with the amount of computer control and always-online features in current cars, this is already a huge risk.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

Why would a state actor do this? It's a clear declaration of war, and probably wouldn't kill more people than suddenly launching missiles. Even if they could somewhat hide it, the US is prone to retaliate on fairly flimsy pretexts. There may be some terrorism risk, but any truly terrifying scenario requires a multitude of incredibly stupid design choices. Like constant internet connection, remote updates, no manual override, and a single widespread system. Hacking stoplights is roughly as scary.

tgv 6y ago
It will cripple a country and its economy.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  So will bombs edit particularly as an attack on self driving cars would be an intentional targeting of civilians, and would likely be considered similar to using chemical weapons.
  - tgv 6y ago
    I think people have considered the national security implications of bombs. > particularly as an attack on self driving cars would be an intentional targeting of civilians Except it obviously isn't an attack on civilians.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      >Except it obviously isn't an attack on civilians It's not obvious. There are two methods they could attack. Force cars to make drive dangerously, which is a clear attack on civilians. Or halt all cars, which wouldn't be but would require incredibly dumb design choices in the cars. I assumed the first, and I guess you picture the second.
      - tgv 6y ago
        Your first option is way more devious than anything I had imagined, that's true, but I'm not convinced it would warrant toe to toe nuclear combat with the Ruskies, to quote Dr. Strangelove (or rather Major Kong in that movie). I'd expect something along the line of strict economic embargo, with all sorts of shady people making a lucrative business out of it.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  If you do that we will launch missiles. You will not survive the attempt. See, this is the thing with stuff like this. "You can't prove it!" doesn't work. If a Russian terrorist cell (state sponsored or not) did this to American vehicles on the road, Putin will be on the phone begging to not be blown up. The leaders of a dozen countries will be on the phone begging us not to blow him up. It's like America's power supply. Notoriously easy to destroy, but if you do destroy it, hell will rain down upon you. Because it turns out the devices that make the peace don't operate like the devices that operate in the peace. So you can't break them that easily.
  - tgv 6y ago
    So you think cars are safe because the US president will nuke Russia? That's borderline trolling.

errantspark 6y ago

This is already a risk with normal cars. https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/ https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig...