5 ms·

Uber Eats avoids ruling on workers' status by settling with delivery rider

65 points by samizdis 6y ago

samizdis 6y ago
Related to this theme of worker status, but in Europe: Uber, Gig Companies Seek Labor Deals to Avoid Workers Becoming Employees https://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-gig-companies-seek-labor-deals-to-avoid-workers-becoming-employees-11609334051 https://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-gig-companies-seek-labor-d... Edited to add: archived version at https://archive.is/3YR8N https://archive.is/3YR8N
chrononaut 6y ago
> [Federal court judge Mordecai Bromberg said in court] “Everybody knows what function Uber plays. The restaurant’s function is to prepare the food. Uber’s function is to deliver the food; isn’t that right? The very name Uber would convey to the ordinary person some form of transportation service; wouldn’t it?” > [Uber's barrister] Neil replied: “We could not accept that.” Hah, amazing. I wish there was a place that I could easily go to which catalogued these fascinating interactions in the court room.
- Theory5 6y ago
  The New York Times had a set of videos called 'Verbatim" where actors acted out scenes from real deposition transcripts. I wish they continued that, there's probably thousands of these sorts of things both in court, and depositions. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/opinion/verbatim-what-is-a-photocopier.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/opinion/verbatim-what-is-...
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7vN_PEmeKb0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7vN_PEmeKb0 This one was funny enough to be voice acted verbatim by the Rick and morty cast, and put to animation. Warning, it's very nsfw
- m463 6y ago
  I'm reminded of the Vitamin Water court case where the judge issued a ruling against coca cola, whose lawyers said the suit was "ridiculous" on the grounds that "no consumer could reasonably be misled into thinking Vitaminwater was a healthy beverage"
- Jommi 6y ago
  But the Uber's side is right - they are not only deliverying but providing other stuff like discovery.
webwielder2 6y ago
Is there a good primer on the good faith arguments on both sides for the employee vs. contractor debate for these gig companies?
- montagg 6y ago
  I think Ben Thompson does a good job laying out the situation fairly in this article: https://stratechery.com/2019/neither-and-new-lessons-from-uber-and-vision-fund/ https://stratechery.com/2019/neither-and-new-lessons-from-ub... It’s not exactly a primer on the good faith arguments for employee vs contractor, but it does break down where each classification works and where each is problematic, and he comes to the conclusion that neither is appropriate to capture (in relation to CA’s gig classification bill from last year) “the protections and revenue-collection apparatus that California deems necessary while still preserving the flexibility and market-driven scalability that make these consumer welfare-generating platforms possible.”
  - thisrod 6y ago
    Note that this case was decided in Australia. It certainly isn't the Soviet Union, but neither is it the USA. Especially where unions and employment law are concerned. It's also worth noting that the Fair Work Commission has been stacked by the current government, which is formed by the investors' party, but the Federal Court is genuinely apolitical. The workers' party has spent most of the last 30 years in opposition. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/07/coalition-stacking-fair-work-commission-with-mates-labor-says https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/07/coali...
newfeatureok 6y ago
Personally I have no problem with Uber drivers being contractors but I wish it were more like eBay in that you could set your own prices and routes as a driver and then as a “buyer” set your own maximum price. For example if I’m going to New York in a month I’d love to say hey I need a ride from Penn Station to Brooklyn and I’m willing to pay $10. Ideally then the driver could, with the help of the app consolidate these requests and then pick me and maybe a few others up and complete the route.
- mikestew 6y ago
  but I wish it were more like eBay in that you could set your own prices and routes as a driver and then as a “buyer” set your own maximum price. That's the definition of "contractor" that many companies would prefer to ignore. See also: Amazon delivery drivers, which are just employees without benefits who also have to pay for their own tools to get the job done. In other words, "contractors", except for that pesky autonomy part.
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    > contractors", except for that pesky autonomy part. Wouldn't setting your own working hours, literally minute to minute, qualify? Also, setting prices as a driver also exists, at least in CA: https://www.uber.com/blog/california/set-your-fares/ https://www.uber.com/blog/california/set-your-fares/
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      A key factor in US law is that a company can't use independent contractors for its primary business function. Also, an independent contractor isn't bound by the clients requirements for how the job is performed, only the result of the work. Uber requires specific cars and behavioral standards, and specific moments for the work it assigns. https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm
      - wutbrodo 6y ago

65 points by samizdis 6y ago

Related to this theme of worker status, but in Europe: Uber, Gig Companies Seek Labor Deals to Avoid Workers Becoming Employees https://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-gig-companies-seek-labor-deals-to-avoid-workers-becoming-employees-11609334051 https://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-gig-companies-seek-labor-d... Edited to add: archived version at https://archive.is/3YR8N https://archive.is/3YR8N

chrononaut 6y ago

> [Federal court judge Mordecai Bromberg said in court] “Everybody knows what function Uber plays. The restaurant’s function is to prepare the food. Uber’s function is to deliver the food; isn’t that right? The very name Uber would convey to the ordinary person some form of transportation service; wouldn’t it?” > [Uber's barrister] Neil replied: “We could not accept that.” Hah, amazing. I wish there was a place that I could easily go to which catalogued these fascinating interactions in the court room.

Theory5 6y ago
The New York Times had a set of videos called 'Verbatim" where actors acted out scenes from real deposition transcripts. I wish they continued that, there's probably thousands of these sorts of things both in court, and depositions. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/opinion/verbatim-what-is-a-photocopier.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/opinion/verbatim-what-is-...
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7vN_PEmeKb0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7vN_PEmeKb0 This one was funny enough to be voice acted verbatim by the Rick and morty cast, and put to animation. Warning, it's very nsfw
m463 6y ago
I'm reminded of the Vitamin Water court case where the judge issued a ruling against coca cola, whose lawyers said the suit was "ridiculous" on the grounds that "no consumer could reasonably be misled into thinking Vitaminwater was a healthy beverage"
Jommi 6y ago
But the Uber's side is right - they are not only deliverying but providing other stuff like discovery.

webwielder2 6y ago

Is there a good primer on the good faith arguments on both sides for the employee vs. contractor debate for these gig companies?

montagg 6y ago
I think Ben Thompson does a good job laying out the situation fairly in this article: https://stratechery.com/2019/neither-and-new-lessons-from-uber-and-vision-fund/ https://stratechery.com/2019/neither-and-new-lessons-from-ub... It’s not exactly a primer on the good faith arguments for employee vs contractor, but it does break down where each classification works and where each is problematic, and he comes to the conclusion that neither is appropriate to capture (in relation to CA’s gig classification bill from last year) “the protections and revenue-collection apparatus that California deems necessary while still preserving the flexibility and market-driven scalability that make these consumer welfare-generating platforms possible.”
- thisrod 6y ago
  Note that this case was decided in Australia. It certainly isn't the Soviet Union, but neither is it the USA. Especially where unions and employment law are concerned. It's also worth noting that the Fair Work Commission has been stacked by the current government, which is formed by the investors' party, but the Federal Court is genuinely apolitical. The workers' party has spent most of the last 30 years in opposition. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/07/coalition-stacking-fair-work-commission-with-mates-labor-says https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/07/coali...

newfeatureok 6y ago

Personally I have no problem with Uber drivers being contractors but I wish it were more like eBay in that you could set your own prices and routes as a driver and then as a “buyer” set your own maximum price. For example if I’m going to New York in a month I’d love to say hey I need a ride from Penn Station to Brooklyn and I’m willing to pay $10. Ideally then the driver could, with the help of the app consolidate these requests and then pick me and maybe a few others up and complete the route.

mikestew 6y ago
but I wish it were more like eBay in that you could set your own prices and routes as a driver and then as a “buyer” set your own maximum price. That's the definition of "contractor" that many companies would prefer to ignore. See also: Amazon delivery drivers, which are just employees without benefits who also have to pay for their own tools to get the job done. In other words, "contractors", except for that pesky autonomy part.
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  > contractors", except for that pesky autonomy part. Wouldn't setting your own working hours, literally minute to minute, qualify? Also, setting prices as a driver also exists, at least in CA: https://www.uber.com/blog/california/set-your-fares/ https://www.uber.com/blog/california/set-your-fares/
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    A key factor in US law is that a company can't use independent contractors for its primary business function. Also, an independent contractor isn't bound by the clients requirements for how the job is performed, only the result of the work. Uber requires specific cars and behavioral standards, and specific moments for the work it assigns. https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm
    - wutbrodo 6y ago