4 ms·

Bait-and-switch doesn't matter if Amazon doesn't care about fake and paid-for reviews. I was looking for dashcams and came across this: https://www.amazon.co.u

Bait-and-switch doesn't matter if Amazon doesn't care about fake and paid-for reviews. I was looking for dashcams and came across this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/iiwey-Channels-included-Dashboard-Detection/dp/B08L7HZF3Z/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/iiwey-Channels-included-Dashboard-D... 91% 5-star reviews, a lot of the reviews are from "Top XXX reviewer", and almost every one seems to be reading off a script. If you check out all the profiles of these "Top XX" reviewers, they all seem to be non-stop purchasers of chinese tat... curiously all rated 5 starts. I'm sure Amazon is perfectly capable of detecting and handling this, what incentive do they have to allow all these fake reviews?

iamacyborg 6y ago
> what incentive do they have to allow all these fake reviews? People buy the tat from Amazon instead of buying a name brand from a competitor.
- sdflhasjd 6y ago
  Surely customers will still buy from respected brands on Amazon though.
Zizizizz 6y ago
I was looking at webcams and the Amazon recommended one is 1000+ five star reviews some of which say that you only get a lifetime warranty if you leave a five star review
xxs 6y ago
A simple test for quality - if the clam shell/body is made of ABS (instead of polycarbonate or nylon), it's very likely bad. The dashcam appears ABS, judging from the pics. You can return stuff back when bought online in 14days, I think this part remains after the 1st of Jan.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  How can you tell the difference? It seems like you're making a judgement based on just the product pictures, what specific things make it looks like ABS to you? What would a polycarbonate or nylon plastic look like?
  - xxs 6y ago
    Nylon won't be glossy for sure. PC can be glossy, though. However China goods are very often glossy ABS and it'd be mentioned if they'd use PC (or some PC composite)
- frontiersummit 6y ago
  ABS is not a low quality material. It is a tough polymer which maintains its toughness over a wide range of environmental conditions. That is why it is widely used in applications like automotive interior and exterior panels. It's probably a good choice for a product like a dashcam which will be exposed to a wide temperature range.
  - xxs 6y ago
    I guess the most famous part "low quality" ABS is that UV unstable along with low resistance to organic chemicals like gasoline[0] (and acetone, which is ABS glue). Compare that to nylon[1]. Flip note ABS becomes brittle at lower temperatures (say -20C). As for why I thought it was ABS. It's glossy and if it was nylon or polycarbonate (esp. glass/carbon fiber composite, or even PC+ABS), it'd be written a major pro in the marketing materials. [0]: http://www.kelco.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/abs-chemical-compatibility-guide.pdf http://www.kelco.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/abs-chemi... [1]: https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart/ https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart...
dathinab 6y ago
I don't think they have interest in fake reviews. But they might have an interest in not having a lot of products which don't sell at all because of mostly bad reviews (they are the Nr1 platforms for cheap "Chinese" products, they would lose a lot of sellers if they are no longer suited for selling low quality products) . They also might have some interest into a erosion of trust into non "sold by Amazon", "shipped by Amazone" and "Amazone Choice" products. But that supper speculative.
ryanianian 6y ago
I've been using ReviewMeta to assist identifying the "real" reviews and learning the unadulterated score. I don't know if it handles "bait-and-switch" as mentioned in TFA, but it's steered me away from a lot of products that seemed reasonable based solely on reviews. I especially like that it can recognize false bad reviews which are often left by competitors.
- arafa 6y ago
  I also use ReviewMeta and it does handle review hijacking. It's not a great experience as a customer, but if I combine ReviewMeta and Amazon reviews and search I still get pretty good products. My basic guidelines are that it needs at least 4 stars (preferably closer to 4.2-4.7) and the product can't be a "fail" on ReviewMeta. I also am wary if ReviewMeta is a "warn". I don't trust Amazon reviews without a review checker anymore, they used to be much better. The highest reviewed products are often some of the worst. Any product with a 4.8 or better is immediately suspect (though some are fine, especially if they don't have as many reviews).
robotnikman 6y ago
Adding fuel to the fire; I remember reading an article last year which appeared on HN, it was about how sellers create groups on facebook which offer to send people free products in they agree to give 5 star reviews. Apparently this is also a massive problem with thousands of people doing this So not only will the reviews be for the wrong product, there is also a good chance that the reviews were bought and are fake.
- fmntf 6y ago
  They are also in telegram. Just search "Amazon reviews" in the public groups, you will find plenty of results.
- redisman 6y ago
  Many crappy products I've bought literally have a business card inside the package where they offer you a $5 giftcard for leaving them a 5 star review. You have to send them a screenshot of the 5 star review.
  - dreamcompiler 6y ago
    If Amazon wanted to they could stop this tomorrow. All they have to do is post on their website "If any vendor offers you money to leave a good review, send us a photo of the offer. We'll check it out, and if it's real we'll pay you double what the vendor offered and then ban that vendor from Amazon."
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      Less volume, less growth, so not good on paper...err shareholders charts.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Should have asked some Russians, they know all about dashcams because they are ubiquitios there for insurance reasons.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Growth! More growth pleases shareholders and the board. Nothing else matters.

iamacyborg 6y ago

> what incentive do they have to allow all these fake reviews? People buy the tat from Amazon instead of buying a name brand from a competitor.

sdflhasjd 6y ago
Surely customers will still buy from respected brands on Amazon though.

Zizizizz 6y ago

I was looking at webcams and the Amazon recommended one is 1000+ five star reviews some of which say that you only get a lifetime warranty if you leave a five star review

xxs 6y ago

A simple test for quality - if the clam shell/body is made of ABS (instead of polycarbonate or nylon), it's very likely bad. The dashcam appears ABS, judging from the pics. You can return stuff back when bought online in 14days, I think this part remains after the 1st of Jan.

0xffff2 6y ago
How can you tell the difference? It seems like you're making a judgement based on just the product pictures, what specific things make it looks like ABS to you? What would a polycarbonate or nylon plastic look like?
- xxs 6y ago
  Nylon won't be glossy for sure. PC can be glossy, though. However China goods are very often glossy ABS and it'd be mentioned if they'd use PC (or some PC composite)
frontiersummit 6y ago
ABS is not a low quality material. It is a tough polymer which maintains its toughness over a wide range of environmental conditions. That is why it is widely used in applications like automotive interior and exterior panels. It's probably a good choice for a product like a dashcam which will be exposed to a wide temperature range.
- xxs 6y ago
  I guess the most famous part "low quality" ABS is that UV unstable along with low resistance to organic chemicals like gasoline[0] (and acetone, which is ABS glue). Compare that to nylon[1]. Flip note ABS becomes brittle at lower temperatures (say -20C). As for why I thought it was ABS. It's glossy and if it was nylon or polycarbonate (esp. glass/carbon fiber composite, or even PC+ABS), it'd be written a major pro in the marketing materials. [0]: http://www.kelco.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/abs-chemical-compatibility-guide.pdf http://www.kelco.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/abs-chemi... [1]: https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart/ https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart...

dathinab 6y ago

I don't think they have interest in fake reviews. But they might have an interest in not having a lot of products which don't sell at all because of mostly bad reviews (they are the Nr1 platforms for cheap "Chinese" products, they would lose a lot of sellers if they are no longer suited for selling low quality products) . They also might have some interest into a erosion of trust into non "sold by Amazon", "shipped by Amazone" and "Amazone Choice" products. But that supper speculative.

ryanianian 6y ago

I've been using ReviewMeta to assist identifying the "real" reviews and learning the unadulterated score. I don't know if it handles "bait-and-switch" as mentioned in TFA, but it's steered me away from a lot of products that seemed reasonable based solely on reviews. I especially like that it can recognize false bad reviews which are often left by competitors.

arafa 6y ago
I also use ReviewMeta and it does handle review hijacking. It's not a great experience as a customer, but if I combine ReviewMeta and Amazon reviews and search I still get pretty good products. My basic guidelines are that it needs at least 4 stars (preferably closer to 4.2-4.7) and the product can't be a "fail" on ReviewMeta. I also am wary if ReviewMeta is a "warn". I don't trust Amazon reviews without a review checker anymore, they used to be much better. The highest reviewed products are often some of the worst. Any product with a 4.8 or better is immediately suspect (though some are fine, especially if they don't have as many reviews).

robotnikman 6y ago

Adding fuel to the fire; I remember reading an article last year which appeared on HN, it was about how sellers create groups on facebook which offer to send people free products in they agree to give 5 star reviews. Apparently this is also a massive problem with thousands of people doing this So not only will the reviews be for the wrong product, there is also a good chance that the reviews were bought and are fake.

fmntf 6y ago
They are also in telegram. Just search "Amazon reviews" in the public groups, you will find plenty of results.
redisman 6y ago
Many crappy products I've bought literally have a business card inside the package where they offer you a $5 giftcard for leaving them a 5 star review. You have to send them a screenshot of the 5 star review.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  If Amazon wanted to they could stop this tomorrow. All they have to do is post on their website "If any vendor offers you money to leave a good review, send us a photo of the offer. We'll check it out, and if it's real we'll pay you double what the vendor offered and then ban that vendor from Amazon."
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Less volume, less growth, so not good on paper...err shareholders charts.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

Should have asked some Russians, they know all about dashcams because they are ubiquitios there for insurance reasons.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

Growth! More growth pleases shareholders and the board. Nothing else matters.