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The power of liberal democracies is not that bad things never happen in them. The power is that despite all of that, people can still vote and make change. That

The power of liberal democracies is not that bad things never happen in them. The power is that despite all of that, people can still vote and make change. That's why we have amendments and legislature - we see wrong, we try to change it. > If things like the collateral murder videos, or the treatment of Manning and Snowden are the work of said "liberal democracies", then I'm fully in the camp that wants to decline them, and replace them with better, more transparent, more accountable structures. But that's not what will happen. Instead, populists will rise to power under the ruse of libertarianism, or going back to "the old ways." Eventually the nation will continue to divide itself until it collapses under internal infighting. Almost as if by design...

tremon 6y ago
we see wrong, we try to change it. Exactly! But that's predicated on "we see wrong". What Snowden and Wikileaks (and the various paradise leaks) showed, is that there's a lot of wrongs we don't see. Maybe I didn't specify this explicitly in my earlier post, but my core position is this: attacks on Wikileaks are attacks on the ability for the voting population to see the wrongs, and as such are attacks on democracy itself. It's ironic for the CIA to claim that Wikileaks "works towards the decline of liberal democracy", when the CIA itself is working to suppress democratic checks and balances.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  So essentially - any attack on wikileaks or journalism/the press in general is an attack on democracy?
  - Magufn 6y ago
    Absolutely.
    - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
      The current sitting president labeled the press the enemy of the people and has continually attacked it. How shall we deal with this enemy of democracy?
- the_only_law 6y ago
  > It's ironic for the CIA to claim that Wikileaks "works towards the decline of liberal democracy", when the CIA itself is working to suppress democratic checks and balances. the CIA in the past has installed brutal dictatorships and actively tortured the most vulnerable of our own citizens. I think it's fair to say protecting liberal democracy is hardly a priority of theirs.

tremon 6y ago

we see wrong, we try to change it. Exactly! But that's predicated on "we see wrong". What Snowden and Wikileaks (and the various paradise leaks) showed, is that there's a lot of wrongs we don't see. Maybe I didn't specify this explicitly in my earlier post, but my core position is this: attacks on Wikileaks are attacks on the ability for the voting population to see the wrongs, and as such are attacks on democracy itself. It's ironic for the CIA to claim that Wikileaks "works towards the decline of liberal democracy", when the CIA itself is working to suppress democratic checks and balances.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
So essentially - any attack on wikileaks or journalism/the press in general is an attack on democracy?
- Magufn 6y ago
  Absolutely.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    The current sitting president labeled the press the enemy of the people and has continually attacked it. How shall we deal with this enemy of democracy?
the_only_law 6y ago
> It's ironic for the CIA to claim that Wikileaks "works towards the decline of liberal democracy", when the CIA itself is working to suppress democratic checks and balances. the CIA in the past has installed brutal dictatorships and actively tortured the most vulnerable of our own citizens. I think it's fair to say protecting liberal democracy is hardly a priority of theirs.